lead toxicity and regulations

[paulvallandigham]

Sean: I meant no attack on anyone. I am just frustrated that only a handful of lawyers- trained to object to and question every proposition-- its called the socratic method---ever seem to raise objections when some group or another, or some government agency comes out with another Scare the hell out of us report, based on junk science, so we will quickly give them more money and more control over our lives. Whatever happened to the hole in the Ozone layer? That was the world clamaity we were told we would face if we didn't immediately ban certain chemicals, NO? Why is it I am one of the few people to actually remember these phony crises brought to you by the left wing groups within the government? Its the lefties under Clinton and Powell who set in motion the plan to eliminate the use of lead bullets by the end of this decade- not the conservative Bush Generals. All these attacks on lead, with the left leaning government going along is a bootstrap argument to support banning lead bullets.

If they can't take our guns, they will unload them, no? Go ahead and laugh, but there are left wingers all over this country who actually think through these kinds of plans, and begin organizating their friends in various agencies to produce "junk Science "( Defined as any scientific work produced solely to support a predetermined result, rather than letting the facts speak for themselves, whichever way it goes.) to further their political objectives. This is done at colleges and Universities, and they are so smug about their strength, that they don't even hide the fact that they are pursuing a long term plan to alter American culture, and our way of life. They will lie, cheat, steal, change meanings of words, invent new words, or change the definition of words, use any tactic to win. WINNING IS the OBJECTIVE. These same people were close to committing suicide when the Soviet Union Collapsed, and hardly knew what to do with themselves for a couple of years. Then, when the Republicans finally took control of Congress in the 1994 election, they decided to pull together and begin their campaign to destroy the traditions and Constitutional freedoms in this country. They used both the EPA, which they had lots of willing friends working for, and the Center for Disease Control to crank out Junk Science reports claiming that crime needs to be treated as a epidemic, and that guns must be banned just as we would seek a kill a virus, or a strain of bacteria. It took a while for Physicians and others to see where they were going with this and respond. Now that they have the funding from George Soros, and the Joyce Foundation pretty well assured, they are focusing their efforts to speed up their attacks, in order to attempt to get radical legislation passed before any meaningful opposition can be raised. That is why you saw the UN report on Global Warming instantly being met by demands to adopt its conclusions as the truth, and leading Democrats calling for blocking any dissenting opinions, no matter how well based they may be in facts, to any conclusion that was different that the finding that global warming was solely due to man's activities, and of the USA in particular. People who passionately defended the right to Speak Freely were heard to condemn and boo off the stage, any one who would speak in opposition to the thesis they espouse. No one wants to talk about why the Hole in the Ozone layers closes and opens annually, and the same scientists who claimed the sky was falling now are silent as to why that happens, even after we spent billions of dollars banning certain aerosols, on their learned advice. No one wants to talk about how Lake Erie did not die, and was not going to remain a dead Lake for 1,000 years because of pollution, when within 5 years of banning certain dumping, and chemicals, new plant life was growing on the bottom of the Lake, and fish were once again thriving in the southen( US) basin. When we spent billions of dollars closing Love Canal, buying up houses, raising them, relocating the people to other neighborhoods, and then attempting to clean up the PVCs left there, only to find out later than ordinarly sunlight, with ultra violet rays breaks down these toxins into harmless substances, No one wants to explain how they screwed that one up. In fact, find something the government has done,- as in the EPA- that was a cluster meeting, please! Anyone?

All I am asking members and their families here is to THINK, and ask questions. NEVER Accept anything the government( Most of all) tells you as truth until you have ascertained that they know what they are talking about. Insist that they prove it to you. Government officials lie, because that is part of that sub-culture. They are so trained and used to lying to each other that they just can't help themselves lying to the public. They use secrecy rules to protect themselve from public oversight. It becomes a " them" and " Us " club, and we are the " Them ". They don't respect us, and they certainly can't trust us. That is why we should all be for term limits, and limitations on how long people can work for the government in any capacity. We also need to insist that much fewer documents and records are allowed to be clasified as secret or given some other security rating. These systems have been abused from their onset, because they were invented to be abused. Jobs and lives are at stake if the public learns just how little these folks care, or do on your behalf. Once elected, their only interest is in staying in office. Staying in power.

Question everything. Every college student in Liberal Arts and Science schools has to take a course on the Fundamentals of Logic. That is where you learn to analyze and take apart fallacies of argument. All I ask is that you pay attention in that class, and then use it any time any government official at any level of government tells you something that is the basis for him denying you the right to continue doing something you have done all your life. If someone claims that the " Law " give him certain powers, CALL A LAWYER, and ask about it. Yes, you can afford to consult an attorney. We don't bite. We actually charge far less than your doctor does.

 

[MercerLake]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!!!!! :bow:

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Well spoken! :hatsoff:

 

[theDuck]

Purhaps the hunters who eat the meat from these kills in the areas where the ravens are tested should have their lead levels tested. If lead levels in ravens are up from eating gut piles then lead levels should be up for hunters and their families as well. If human lead levels aren't up then the raven lead levels are in question or the sourse of that lead exposure is. I'll bet that those doing the report won't want to hear that suggestion.
I've eaten alot of venison over the years. I may get my lead levels checked.

 

[gmww]

Purhaps the hunters who eat the meat from these kills in the areas where the ravens are tested should have their lead levels tested. If lead levels in ravens are up from eating gut piles then lead levels should be up for hunters and their families as well. If human lead levels aren't up then the raven lead levels are in question or the sourse of that lead exposure is. I'll bet that those doing the report won't want to hear that suggestion.
I've eaten alot of venison over the years. I may get my lead levels checked.

I think testing coyotes or other scavengers to compare with the Ravens would be another test.

 

[BrownBear]

Now that y'all have had your fun trashing Sean, who appears to be a fine young man with some good technical info, look back at what he said.

No pseudo-science, keyboard ballistics, crotch grabbing or trash talk.

He has a very good idea that could provide the foundation for a lead exemption for primitive weapon hunters.

Anyone got the gumption and common sense to leave their soap box behind and talk about his idea? Or are you having to much fun winging it with pop science that won't carry an ounce of weight in the face of agencies that have their own science and are lining up to ban all lead?

Heck yeah, lead's a natural element, but so is politics. Keyboard ballistics and People Magazine science aren't going to carry any weight in the public hearings, as much fun as it is for people to use it here to bash folks with the courage to propose a new idea.

Remember how well all the stuff being said on this thread worked to defeat lead bans for waterfowl? That ought to tell you lots about the quality of the "science" being bantied about here in long, senseless posts. Seems like it's high time to try Sean's approach.

I'll take his reasoning to public hearings any day with some hope of winning, but not much else I've read here will get a second look by the agencies backed by science and holding the decision making power.

The same old has-been, tired logic and arguments aren't going to work any better now than they did when lead was banned from waterfowl hunting, so why honor them and their pushers again?

 

[gmww]

Well Sean sorry if you think my posts are trashing you. Not my intent. My posts were about what has been happening locally. "Unknown source of lead killing Swans by ingestion." My other post is a possible examination of scavenger animals where the Ravens are tested to see if they come up with similarities during the hunting season.

 

Good post and thank you for taking the time to do it. Its not right to attack you. The people that need to be attacked are those using this backdoor means of guncontrol.

Guys we need to get behind every pro gun candidate we can. Also write your local govt officials and try to educate them as the original posted said. I am not buying into it being a hunter problem. These birds are scavengers and who knows what or where they are eating. I'm sure they eat more at a local dump than they do gut piles. Gut piles are a treat for all the critters.

Bash the politicians not someone trying to help. There is a great deal of frustration these days and it needs to be vented on those causing it.

B

 

[roundball]

Well said... :thumbsup:

 

[Lead Chucker]

However, the one issue that has not yet been and addressed and, in my opinion, really needs to be is the relative risk of exposure from different types of firearms. If anyone bothers to test it, I think they will find that most exposure comes from high velocity lead core bullets from centerfires and possibly from inlines firing saboted modern bullets that may fragment on impact. Some of the other papers that have been published on this issue show microscopic lead fragments in the tissue surrounding exit wounds from high velocity bullets. Scavenging birds use those exit wounds as entry points into carcasses and are hence at high risk for exposure. I do not believe this is nearly as much of an issue with slow-moving and highly-cohesive pure lead round balls. The problem is that we are a small market, and we really need to get agencies thinking about those of us who hunt with PRB and funding such research before we are completely shut out of large areas of the US or worse.

The only way to get them thinking is to talk with them. My suggestion is to do it nicely and mention your concern over these issues. Ask if anyone is considering the relative risk of different types of lead projectiles, particularly low velocity round balls for which there is currently no substitute. Mention your concern over the potential loss of this link to our country's hunting history and tradition. Mention the relative responsibility of traditional round ball hunter, who are less likely to wound and lose an animal.

My feeling is that this issue is gaining momentum and it will be addressed by land managers. We traditional muzzleloader hunters need to make our voices heard on that issue, and we need to do this in a rational manner that makes land managers take our side. There are so few of us that we could easily be left out of the discussion altogether.

By taking the stance that "this is [not] nearly as much of an issue with slow-moving and highly-cohesive pure lead round balls.". We would be tacitly agreeing that is IS an issue for hunting in general. That is not something that I, for one, am prepared to do. I just don't accept the science behind it.

The other problem is where (CA for example), it became something decided by politicians and/or the voting public - not land management or wildlife management. If we try to isolate ourselves form the rest of the hunters, we aren't gonna have a chance. As you say, "there are so few of us" Politicians aren't going to give a damn about our little demographic. And the voting public (the non-hunting part if it), isn't going to understand (or care) about the difference between traditional and modern hunting.

 

Bown Bear,

Thank you. If you were down here, I'd gladly share my left over green chile stew with you.

Lead Chucker,

By taking the stance that "this is [not] nearly as much of an issue with slow-moving and highly-cohesive pure lead round balls.". We would be tacitly agreeing that is IS an issue for hunting in general. That is not something that I, for one, am prepared to do. I just don't accept the science behind it.

Doesn't really matter what we think of the issue or the science. This decision is will be made for us by others, unless we involve ourselves. If you want to deny that lead is a problem, you'll be relegated to people who are considered crackpots (whether we are or not) and your opinion will not heard on the issue. The important thing for us to do is to try to get the scope, scale and sources of the problem defined. We are in a unique situation as there is a technological fix readily available for every one out there except traditional muzzleloader hunters.

CA has been an example for several years now of how wildlife management can be controlled by referendum, i.e. mountain lion hunting. While it is an important right in our society, as a wildlife professional I see the major downside of having the general public who is not educated on an issue make policy decisions like this. But its a perfect example of where spin can overtake science.

Sean

 

[paulvallandigham]

WADR, Those " logical arguments" were not made back when these things were passed. There was no one on notice in sufficient time to challenge these " Scientific " studies.

That is why I have tried to tell everyone here that the Lefties are purposely trying to rush this kind of thing through, and oppose anyone who objects, and even are willing to stifle dissent, to win their way. Its part of their admitted game plan to seize political control and change this country.

I do have experience stopping the anti-freedom forces. I have been working at this for 40 years. Back in the early mid 1990s, after the shootings at Stockton California produced the first municipal " Assault Weapon " ban ordinance, the Dems, who actually had set Handgun Control,Inc. up in the White house, picked out 3 college towns across the United States where there were veto proof majorities of Dems on the Boards or Councils. Then they looked to see when they held their meetings, and how quickly any bill could be passed into law.

In the three they chose, Urbana, Il, Columbus, Ohio, and another town I have now forgotten, all the councils met on Monday nites, and had a " Study session" where new ordinances were discussed and voted to be considered for a final vote at a regular public meeting held every other week, or on the following Monday. Then, they took the Stockton, Cal. Ordinance, and sent it to their local members on these councils with careful instructions on how to go about getting it on the agenda at the last moment so that no opposition would be present at the study sessions, and that would give opposition only a week to find out about the proposed ordinance before it was voted on. They told the member council members that "only Crooks owned semi-automatic weapons." ( That came from one of the Democratic Council members who was shocked at how many people he knew who would be affected by the Assault Weapon Ban ordinance, and who also admitted that there was no one in the Democratic Caucus who knew anything, really, about guns.)

The Democratic Party council members caucused privately every Sunday afternoon, before the Monday study session, so that they would be " united " at the public council Study session.

Well, they added this ordinance to the Agenda at about 4 o'clock P.M. on Monday afternoon, just in time to get the agenda in final form to be typed to distribute to the public when the Council had its meeting at 7 P.M.

I got a call from an employee at the City asking me if I knew about the proposed ordinance, and, of course, I didn't. It had received no coverage by any of the many TV and radio stations that cover local news here. ( Again, help from their friends!) I started calling people, but you can imagine that I could not reach that many people before 5 P.M., when I got his call about 4:30 P.M. and people are heading home from work at either 4:30 or 5 P.M. I called and connected with several friends, who in turn called and got in touch with several others. We did turn out about 20 people to oppose the ordinance, which amazed us all considering such short notice.

The night they chose to introduce the ordinance, Either the Oscars, or some other popular TV show, like the Miss America Pageant was also being telecast. They knew from prior ratings, that local city council meetings were virtually ignored by the public on these nites, and chose this date specifically to minimize the exposure that local public Access TV would give to what they were doing. That was done at the National Level, and dictated to the local members.

The Dems sat up there knowing they had a ' sure thing " going, and were bored waiting for the public comment period to end so they could vote the ordinance to be put on the public agenda the next Monday nite. The ordinance actually was a typed copy of the Stockton ordiance, with White-out used to remove, almost, the name, Stockton, California, and then the name, Urbana, Illinois typed over it. That's how cheap a stunt this was.

The next Monday was the night of the NCAA finals, another high viewer nite on TV, when almost no man can be found doing anything other than watching the game. They again picked that Nite at the national level, by design, to limit the amount of opposition that would show up at the council meetings. When this was pointed out to some of the conservative " labor Democrat" members of the council, even they became annoyed that they were being USED! They were so fearful of opposition, that they ordered the Fire Chief to inspect the premises and determine a Maximum number of people who could enter the City Councilroom, and posted a sign, and arranged for several police officers to enforce the maximum occupancy standard at the front door to the city building. We turned out more than 300 people, and could easily have had more than double that number.

We also worked the Unions, and got statements of opposition from all the service unions for city employees to the ordinance. That included the Police Union, the Firefighters Union, and the Public Works Union. Even the Union that represented the clerical staff voted to oppose the ordinance.

We tried to work the labor Unions, but all the local managers were " just unavailable", or could not call a meeting of their councils to take a vote, before the meeting. I am talking Teamsters, Plumbers and Pipefitters, Electrical, Carpenters, and Laborers unions, as well as others. That is something that needs to be changed, since so many Union members are also avid hunters, and gun owners.

We set up and announced an organizational meeting for gun owners that met on the Wednesday evening after the Study session, We had about 80 people show up, including some current and retired police officers and sheriff's deputies. All our work to oppose the ordinance was accomplished by angry gun owners between that Wednesday, and the following Monday. We also called every VIP person we knew was a gun owner, and asked them to call these city council members personally to express their personal opposition. This included, bankers, doctors, lawyers, professors, accountants, other government officials( Township, County, State, and Federal) etc.

On Sunday afternoon, at their weekly caucus, one of the Democrat council members indicated that he would not vote for the ordinance. That would not have stopped the ordinance from passing by a majority vote, , but it would have removed the Veto-proof majority the Dems enjoyed. The mayor, a Republican, had already indicated that he would veto the ordinance.

So, to save face, after calling Washington, D.C., it was decided to table the ordinance permanently, on Monday afternoon. This is after the local press annnounced the opposition of all the city Unions, including the Police Union.

The only city that actually passed the " Assault Weapon Ban Ordinance " was Columbus, Ohio, but it was struck down as Unconstitutional under the Ohio Constitution. That was the prelude to the passage of the Clinton Assault Weapon Gun Ban in 1994.

I lay this history out for you because You need to know of our experience with the opposition, what we learned about how the national Anti-gun, Anti-freedom forces work, their goals and objectives, and the tactics. You need to understand that this is a WAR that is orchestrated at a National level, and taking cues at that level. The local anti-freedom people don't breath without permission from the National groups.

Our calls to the NRA got us NO help. You might think that such a powerful and experienced lobby organization like our NRA would have plans in place to send " Truth squads " out with facts, figures and data, or at least have all that stuff printed and ready to send out to members who call for help, at a moment's notice. That is not the case. Even after our experience when I talked to employees of the NRA-ILA, and suggested that they gear up for this kind of warfare, I was met with blank stares, and silence. The Boys in Virginia just don't get it. I love them, and respect all the work they do for us, but they are NOT prepared to be on the front lines for us. We have to do this ourselves, or its not going to get done.

Right now, there are some wonderfully thorough briefs filed in the Heller vs. D.C. case that you can get off the internet. They site cases, and sources that explain the original intent of the Founding Fathers.They also give studies, both private, and government paid for that show that Gun Bans don't work. Much of these studies were briefly mentioned by the task force charged by Congress to advise it about whether to extend, or let die the Assault Weapons Ban Bill in 2004, and the task force reported that there was NO evidence reported anywhere that indicated that the law prevented ONE CRIME of violence during the 10 years the law was on the books. Congress let the law die pursuant to the " sunset " provisions written into the bill, originally.

There are studies that indicate that whenever Private citizens are permitted to carry firearms, violent crime rates drop, rather than rise, as the anti-freedom forces always argue. Michigan recently announced that in the 6 years since they passed their CC permit law, violent crime rates have been lower than before the law was passed, and that NONE of the imagined " Blood in the gutters" events have taken place in that state.

48 of the 50 states now have some form of permit system or laws that permit law abiding citizens to carry firearms. Only Wisconsin and Illinois remain as the states that deny citizens their right to protect themselves.

Wisconsin is in the grips of a heavily Democratic government because of populations in Madison, and Milwaukee. The rest of the state is very largely pro-gun. Concealed Carry bills have passed twice in the past 4 years and then been vetoed by an anti-gun governor, and the vetos sustained because the same representative from Milwaukee has changed his vote, voting first to pass the law, and then voting against the override. So, Wisconsin is, literally, one vote away from passing Concealed carry.

Illinois is dominated by Chicago, it Anti-gun mayor, and a gerrymandered district system that guarantees Democrat majorities in both houses. We have a very unpopular, Democratic Governor, who is also anti-gun.

However, the Dems are running scared on this issue, and this year they have introduced their own " Permissive issue " bill, that would require you to get the permission of your local sheriff to get a permit to carry, rather than a " Shall Issue" bill that we have drafted, and introduced every session since 1998.

Our law takes the discretion to issue a permit away from government officials. All the bills are bottled up in the Executive Committees, which means that they only go out on the floor for a vote if the Democratic leader of that House wants a vote on it. We consider the bill simply window dressing, and a sap to the downstate Democrats who are pro-gun, and want a concealed carry law in Illinois. It will probably not even be voted on in committee sessions. And, that committee is notorious for Not holding public hearings on bills its going to pass on to the floor.

What we have done as Pro-freedom advocates is to organize an Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day( IGOLD) schedules for March 11( Tuesday) in Springfield. We also have drafted a Pro-second Amendment Resolution that states opposition to further Chicago style anti-gun laws, and have had the resolution passed by 69 of the 102 counties in Illinois, all since November, 2007. We continue to present the bill to the remaining counties. Last year, we turned out 1500 plus supporters to lobby in favor of pro-gun bills, and surprised the heck out of the House and Senate members, as well as leaders in traditional gun organizations here in Illinois.

This year, we are planning to turn out 3,000 or more supporters to be there that day. We are meeting at Noon at the Hilton Hotel, and then marching to the capital. Parade permits have already been obtained. We have T-shirts for sale, and hope to have hats with Igold on them. There will be a meeting, dinner at one of the hotels that afternoon, before we all head home. We have rented buses to take people there from all parts of the State. YOu can keep up with the activities by going to www.IllinoisCarry.com.

We know that our marches and appearances do make a difference. Just like the Urbana City Council was scared to death that a huge mob of angry gun owners might appear at the city building to oppose the passage of the assault Weapons Ban ordinance, back in 1993, the current Anti-freedom crowd is scared to death of angry gun owners. The more we turn out, the more they fear doing anything that might anger us.

Sometimes fear is the only emotional tactic left to use. We don't have to threaten them, or carry firearms to appeal to their own fears. All we have to do is appear. That is the lesson I have learned about politics.In fact, after I debated an anti-freedom force member some years ago, I asked her, " if you ever do manage to outlaw guns, who are you going to get to try to take them away from gun owners? " The look on her face was priceless.

BTW, all the anti-freedom forces are waiting to see the outcome of the Heller vs. D.C. case before the Supreme Court. Oral Arguments will be heard on March 18. A Decision is expected by June, 2008. the briefs have been filed, and frankly, the brief filed on behalf of the city is an embarrassment. They know it. What the Anti-s are looking to see is just how far the Court goes, so they can restructure their plans to push more gun control laws.

You will note, I am sure, that there have been a spate of bills offered all over the country to require that bullets be micro serial numbered to permit tracing to original purchaser. This is not a serious crime fighting proposal. Its sole purpose is to raise the cost of ammo so high that most hunters( working class and poor people) can no longer afford to fire guns, or hunt. This is the lefties' callous assault on what they euphemistically call the " Nascar" voters.

We do have to oppose these proposed laws, with logic, but we have an unacknowledged ally in the CSI TV shows that have been such successes these past few years. Most people admit watching one or more of them, and the public has become very educated about how evidence is used to prove guilt in criminal cases. Proposals like this one are not going to be met by the same gullable, untrained, political hacks that were so easily convinced to pass an Assault weapons ban ordinance 15 years ago. And the public now knows that crime rates go down when law abiding citizens are allowed to protect themselves. The enthusiasm for gun control is waning, not growing, and the politicians know it. They also know supporting gun control cost them the Congress in 1994, and the Presidency in 2000. They don't like the fact that the US Supreme Court took the Heller Case this year, or that this decision will come out just before the National Party conventions. Gun Control will be an issue again this year, and that means that gun owners- angry gun owners are going to be motivated to vote in November. Their plans of putting a Left Wing Democrat- Clinton or Obama - can be upset if gun owners turn out an vote against them. I can assure you that neither Mrs. Clinton, or Sen. Obama has ever seen a gun control law they don't like.

 

[Lead Chucker]

This decision is will be made for us by others, unless we involve ourselves. If you want to deny that lead is a problem, you'll be relegated to people who are considered crackpots (whether we are or not) and your opinion will not heard on the issue.

No disagreement as to getting involved - I just don't agree (respectfully) with the manner. I think that isolating ourselves from the rest of the hunting community is an invitation to be ignored.

BTW: If I was concerned about being considered a crackpot, I wouldn't be into ML. :grin:

We are in a unique situation as there is a technological fix readily available for every one out there except traditional muzzleloader hunters.

Once again - isolating ourselves! Not just from modern hunters, but from those who are not "traditional" muzzleloader hunters. After all, the only aspect of traditional muzzleloader hunting that requires a lead roundball (or projectile) is the "traditional" part.

 

BTW: If I was concerned about being considered a crackpot, I wouldn't be into ML.

Welcome to the club.

Wow Paul, you must type 120 words a minute...
:wink:

Sean

 

[4444]

For some time we've been dealing with lead shot ban on state and Federal lands here in MN. Now the last few years the politicans are trying to get us to trade in all our lead fishing tackle because it's killing our State bird the Loon. Now recently they're turning their attention to all lead bullets. I'm just afraid the political wave is going to keep building. Just look at all the uproar on recalled toys from China. Last year a child died here in Mn from swollowing a lead toy. I agree with Seans sugestions on how to deal with these studies. But I'm afraid that if they're taking on the whole fishing industry, and all of hunting, they're not going to listen to a few guys who like to hunt with low velocity PRB.

 

[RC]

""the last few years the politicans are trying to get us to trade in all our lead fishing tackle because it's killing our State bird the Loon""" better pay attention, in N.Y. I cannot buy lead sinkers..even off the net,cabelas gander etc..we can still use them but not buy them...save ducks here.......

 

[Zonie]

As the subject of "junk science" is a part of this subject I thought I would point out some of the catch words that usually are repeated over and over in the press (and TV stations) when unprovable speculation is being used.

Beware of the word(s) "may", "might", "could", "some people, (scientists or experts)", "thought to be", and "possibly".
Every one of these is an admission that the "fact" that is being presented is not defensible by the person who is using them or the "science" that is being quoted.

Keep these words in mind when you read or hear some "expert". You will be amazed at how often they are used and how few of the readers and listeners understand what their usage actually means.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I wonder what the lead content is in the meat we take home and eat. If it's high in the gut pile, (where normally the bullet/ball doesn't hit (or shouldn't) it should really be high in the meat and then us.

When you shoot and kill an animal, it's blood circulation stops. Any lead from a bullet is not going to be circulated through the meat. There might be a trace at the wound, but that's about it.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I hold any information that comes from Government study with great doubt. There's always a political agenda that is being full filled with these things when any of the greenies or animal rights folks can get their fingers into it. The Government is chock-o-block full of greenies and ARA's.
I simply will not believe there are high levels of lead in gut piles or ravens unless I personally see the testing done with my own eyes.

 

[Stophel]

Everybody's worried about the health of the animals...no one is worried about the health of the hunters! Why, their blood lead level must be elevated off the charts! If Crows can get "elevated" lead levels by theoretically coming in contact with absolutely miniscule amounts of lead, imagine the lead levels of the hunter/shooter who handles lead all the time! It's a miracle we're all still alive!

(While the above is meant as a work of sarcasm, it does show a real problem with the "environmental" movement. They are concerned for animals, and not people. They will do and say ANYTHING to "save the planet". I'm surprised there are not calls for mass suicide to rid the "planet"...note how no one says "Earth" anymore...of us horrid humans, who are no good for anything but death and destruction.)