Lauber wheellock..why flint?

[TNHillbilly]

After putting this lock away for a long time, I decided to drag it out and try once again to get it to work. I have, I guess, 3 types of pyrites: cubes, the porous chunks and pieces of 'sand dollar' type. The only consistency I can get is with a piece of flint! This is the rather transluscent 'waxy' flint. The 'dollar' pyrite works quite well in my flintlock pistols. My wheel has been hardened with Casenite, and then I reheated to a pale blue. I did this out of frustration 'cause I seemed to be getting nowhere! I can only get an occasional spark off the pyrite.....few, and weak. I have to guess the hardness of the wheel is the key, but perhaps the mainspring. The mainspring was made from the thickest Dixie Gun Works stock they carry. It will, however, not open the pan cover! Looking at some of Razpla's descriptions at the ALS place, it suggests this is still too small. Any thoughts? Bill

 

[Tinker2]

The mainspring was made from the thickest Dixie Gun Works stock they carry. It will, however, not open the pan cover! Any thoughts?

Well if the spring doesn’t open the pan cover I would remove the spring and see if the parts are binding. That is what I would do first.

If not re-temper the spring if it is not binding.

Thicker spring steel new or used is not hard to come up with if you think you need it.


William Alexander

 

[wulf]

Like Tinker says. Take the lock apart and ck the movement of all the pieces one at a time. I use coil springs that are less than half the leaf spring but I get a full 7/8 turn and no problem opening the pan cover...I also us welders flint which nobody on the forum approves of but they don't fail. Not PC. Me no care. Also from what I remember from earlier posts the Lauber lock isn't too reliable with the measurements....?????
Wulf

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bill,
The mainspring must be massive for two reasons, 1) it has to spin the wheel quickly and knock the pan cover lever arm forward, 2) it has to be powerful to overcome powder fouling that accumulates behind the wheel after shooting several shots. Dixie sell spring steel that may be sufficiently thick (>1/8" thick) but likely none of their actual springs are strong enough. On one wheellock part set that I own, the mainspring is 1/4" thick. Kasenit will not harden very deeply. It would be better to either use a through-harden steel or case harden in bone charcoal for at least 1 hour. Also, temper to no more than 410-420 degrees (hint of yellow color). Remember, the pyrite works by having the wheel cut into it to produce sparks while a flint cuts into the steel to create them. A flint likely would wear down a wheel quickly.

dave

 

[TNHillbilly]

Thanks for the comments. In part, I'm still trying to grasp the relationship of the wheel/pyrites. I notice Mohs scale, I think I recall, lists flint at hardness of 7 and pyrite 6.5-7. And, Wulf, I have tried the torch 'flints' and get a weak spark but not enough to ignite the 3F powder. A piece of flint, the transluscent type, works almost every time. My mainspring is about 1/8" and made from Dixie stock. I started making another wheellock, but going a good bit larger. Rather than cutting the lock out first, I'm just going to start with the tumbler hole and build from there. When everything is more, or less, in place, I'll shape the lock plate accordingly. Cutting the Lauber plate, e.g., first limits how you do everything else. I guess probably 1/4" spring stock is where one needs to start for the mainspring. Piece of leaf spring from the junk yard I think!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bill,
Describe the sparks to me that occur when you use a flint. Are they reddish or white sparkler?

dave

 

[TNHillbilly]

White, Not exactly a shower, but enough to ignite the powder. Interestingly enough, the pieces of pyrite (sand dollar type) work very well in my flintlock pistols! Bill

 

[TNHillbilly]

Actually, the spark appears more red! I turned the lights out to watch. So, the obvious question, "what difference does it make"......some humor here, maybe!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bill,
My reason for asking is to see if your wheel is sufficiently hard. From your description of the sparks, my suspicion is that it is not hard enough and that may be part of your problem.

dave

 

[TNHillbilly]

I looked this up, never thought, or considered, red or white sparks. Apparently, the red sparks are hotter! Interesting.

 

[Millermpls]

Wouldn't white be hotter than red? Just thinking heated metals, stars, etc.

 

[robinghewitt]

The red ones are much larger and longer lasting, much better for lighting modern powder which tends to be a bit shy on sulphur.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The color of the sparks is not important, rather do they branch and sparkle versus looking like red meteors. The former would suggest the wheel is hardened properly to cut into the pyrite. I ask this because Bill mentioned that he hardened the wheel with Kasenit. Unless he buried it in Kasenit and heat soaked it for at least an hour, the case is likely extremely thin. Second, he wrote that he tempered it to pale blue. That is >600 degrees F, and would result in a lot of lost hardness. It is better to temper a wheel (or frizzen for that matter) to about 410 degrees F, which is a hint of yellow. I suspect the flint works on his wheel because it has a thin hard skin which the flint can cut into and cause sparks, but the wheel is not hard enough to cut into the pyrite and thus create sparks.

dave

 

[TNHillbilly]

I guess the conclusion is: flint sheers/chips the steel; sufficiently hardened steel sheers/chips pyrites....at least in theory. I wasn't purposefully trying to draw to pale blue, just so frustrated with the thing. Another question goes to the shape of the wheel. Every wheel appears to be made with a series of 'V' cuts. Wouldn't the pyrite work better if it were ground with corresponding 'V's'? Said another way, Would a smooth, hardened wheel work with a straight piece of pyrite? For example, I've taken a piece of pyrite, either 'dollar' or porous pyrite and put it on the grinding wheel to get a flat surface. I'm not getting any significant sparking from either. All these discussions may seem petty, but it would be nice to develop some quantitative data to help the next guy. I corresponded with a fellow who had built an exquisite wheely rifle, now used as a wall hanger because he couldn't get it to fire.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bill,
Good questions. Think of a wheellock more like a lighter. Would a smooth rather than knurled wheel on a lighter work better? Probably not. The wheel sits in the bottom of the pan, right in the middle of the flash and the grooves help to keep the wheel functioning against the pyrite after it is all fouled by powder. If it was smooth,it might not grind the pyrite when glazed with greasy powder residue. There is also a hypothesis published Scientific American about 20 years ago, that the wheels had grooves and lateral serrations so that it acted as a milling cutter to cut into the bottom of the pan when the lock was built. That way the wheel fit in the pan was very precise reducing the risk that powder would leak out of the pan. Spark production by wheellocks is a function of a properly hardened wheel, turning with great force against a pyrite held firmly against it. If the dog spring is too weak, the dog holding the pyrite may not press against the wheel with sufficient force to produce sparks. Moreover, if the pan cover simultaneously opens with the spinning wheel, the dog and spring must make sure the pyrite resting on top of the pan cover falls hard against the wheel. Sometimes, the dog gets hung up and does not drop when the pan opens. Some wheellocks had a button you pushed that opened the pan before you fired, but the Lauber has the pan opening automatically upon firing. There are so many things that have to work correctly and be tuned correctly to make a wheellock work. That is why so many guys are frustrated with them. I have several part sets that I've yet to build, but I worked over an Italian-made wheellock that used to be imported back in the 1970s-80s. It is basically Lauber's design, but it needed much work. I polished and re-heat treated almost all the components, adjusted the springs, reshaped the toe of the dog to get it to work right. When done, it reliably sparked like a champ. Currently, one of the chain linkage pins is broken, which were some of the only parts I did not re-heat treat. That lock will be installed on a highly decorated wheellock pistol carbine that I will start in January.

dave

 

[Tinker2]

The 'dollar' pyrite works quite well in my flintlock pistols.

The wheel can be smooth and work just fine just like in your flint lock.

I also use pyrite in one of my flintlocks



William Alexander