Identifying the difference in colt cylinder replica manufactures

[pmonti]

I have just acquired about 20 replica Colt 44 cal black powder cylinders. They fit in Colt's between 1851 thru 1860. I’m in the process of cleaning them up, but I can’t tell who manufacture each one (Uberti, Pietta, etc) Is there a book, website or person who can help me out?
Thanks
PMonti

 

[Zonie]

Not likely.

As you've found, the makers seldom stamp their company logo on the cylinders they make for Cap & Ball revolvers.

Although most of them look the same, there are always small differences making some of them usable in other companies frames and totally unusable in other companies frames.

As you probably know, the original Colt 1851 was only made in .36 caliber and the Colt 1860 was the only one made in .44 caliber.

The (sometimes slightly shorter so it fits a 1851 frame) stepped .44 cylinder the Italians put in their "1851's" never really existed.

As a result of this, Uberti never made a Colt 1851 in .44 caliber.
Of course, Uberti makes the stepped .44 cylinder for the Colt Army 1860.

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

FWIW try sorting them by
# caliber
# proof marks or
# other markings or
# legends between naval scene ends
# absence or presence of cylinder engraving plus style of naval scenes, etc.
and take it from there.
The Belgian Centennials will have the ELG in oval proof mark, the 2nd and 3rd gen Colts shouldn't have any proof marks whereas the Italian replicas will have the Brescia marks.
Share pics if possible.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[JWolfe]

I have some interest in this also. What cylinders will fit in the Lyman revolvers? I have a New Army model that the cyl was worn out and corroded beyond use.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Are all of the cylinders the same? If so, it will make the ID task easier. Maybe the easiest is to find a group of shooters having various Uberti, Pietta, ASM and other manufacturers' revolvers and simply try them for fit.

To complicate matters, I've found that newer Uberti Colt 1860's are entirely different parts and non-interchangeable fit. Between my 1969 Uberti 1860 and a 2012 Uberti 1860, gripframe, trigger guard and even the screws are all significantly different. You would need to try one of each to be sure.

 

[thecapgunkid]

You might want to go through parts folks like VTI and Dixie, for the simple reason that they import or buy in lot numbers or at least have records.

I bought five cylinders that fit my Pietta replica perfectly out-of-package because I did not want to have to reload between stages in my Cowboy Action Matches. I had to ask the vendors first before I tried it, though.

Parts interchange between replica companies like Pietta and Uberti is tough, some companies like Dixie put their name on products from Pedersoli and interchange between Colt and just about every body needs the help of someone who has been there done that because of inconsistency and reliability.

.

 

[wolfundrabe]

On a tangent of finding a cylinder to fit the Lyman revolver. Lyman imported Italian Revolvers, and all the Lyman Revolvers I've seen have been made by either Armi San Paolo or Uberti and had the Makers marks visible. Look for an overlapping DGG for Armi San Paolo or a U inside an octagon for Uberti.

 

[wolfundrabe]

If you are trying to fit them to your own revolvers, just try them out by comparing size and then see if they work.

If your goal is to sell them off, then accurate diameter and length measurements, along with # of cylinders, and caliber, plus a high quality photo of the back of the cylinder should be enough for prospective buyers to determine if they will fit their needs. Photos of any marking or proofs would be a plus.

 

[pmonti]

Sorry for the delay in response things got busy. I measured the Width, Length (to the tip of the ratchet), center hole and cal. Also noted the proof marks and legends all have the navy scene on them.

I came up with 14 different varieties, see table below. Sorry for the format is the best I could do on a text forum.

Center Cal Width Length Proof Marks Legends

11.00 45.1 41.20 51.12 No Colts Patent No./ COLTS PATENT NO.
11.00 45.2 40.97 49.65 Some PN Patent No.
11.01 45.4 41.17 49.58 No Patent No.
11.07 45.2 41.10 49.80 No Patent No.
11.10 45.0 40.70 49.69 PN Gardone Patent No.
11.10 45.0 40.95 49.86 No Patent No.
11.10 44.7 41.01 49.70 No Patent No.
11.15 44.6 40.98 49.55 PN Gardone Patent No.
11.18 45.2 41.00 50.00 No Patent No.
11.20 45.2 40.91 50.02 No COLTS Patent No/Pat. Sept. 10 1950
11.28 44.5 40.68 49.78 PN Patent No.
11.29 44.9 41.02 49.89 No COLTS Patent No/Pat. Sept. 10 1950
11.47 45.7 41.18 49.94 No COLTS Patent No/?2?/???1850?

Not sure how to post pictures, I don't have a hosting site.

 

[TFoley]

Any cylinder with PN on it is Italian, as is anything with Gardone - short for Gardone Val Trompia.

A helm over a square shield with an X in it is Spanish.

tac

 

[JWolfe]

Awesome found the DGG. Thanks!

 

[pmonti]

Click on the links to see pictures, hope this works.

The numbers match the order in the table above.

I need to know what guns these will fit.

Link

 

[Zonie]

It appears that except for the chamber diameter, all of the sizes in the photos are given in millimeters.

For instance #5 says,
center 11.10. That would be .4370 inches.(I take this to be the size of the center arbor hole.)
Width 40.70 which I assume is the outside diameter is 1.6024 inches.
Length 49.69 which would be 1.956 inches. (I'm not sure if this is the length to the rear of the cylindrical area or the length over the face of the ratchet.)

Anyway, for those members who are interested and have a calculator, multiply the numbers times .0394 to find out what the inch sizes are.

 

[robert reed]

Or you can divide by 25.4! :wink: