I need some help identifying this Charleville

[johnputnam1]

Hey, I'm new to this site and I need help finding out which model this Charleville is. I bought it today at a gun show (It's a reproduction) and the guy who sold it said it was a .72, I just want to be certain which model it is before I do anything with it. Thanks! Second question, It is missing a bayonet lug and I would like to find a way to put one on there, any suggestions?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well so it's a .69 if it's a Charleville made in Italy or Japan... can't say for those from India.

The complete lack of marking on the lock makes me think it's other than Japan or Italy.

LD

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Every original Charly I have ever handled was a .72. I handled hundreds of them at RIACo when I worked there and measured the bore of every one. I was quite surprised as I thought for most of my life they were .69s.

 

[wiscoaster]

It's got the cheek cutout, but no middle barrel band clip, so was thinking it might be this:
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/products/1777-revolutionnaire... except lock (as mentioned), brass front band and missing bayonet lug, so still a mystery, sorry. The ramrod is also a little different. Maybe the seller modded it.

 

[johnputnam1]

It's got the cheek cutout, but no middle barrel band clip, so was thinking it might be this:
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/products/1777-revolutionnaire... except lock (as mentioned), brass front band and missing bayonet lug, so still a mystery, sorry. The ramrod is also a little different. Maybe the seller modded it.

Yeah it looks like it has different pieces from different Charlevilles. Unfortunately that makes it harder to ID but I appreciate you looking into it!

 

[johnputnam1]

Every original Charly I have ever handled was a .72. I handled hundreds of them at RIACo when I worked there and measured the bore of every one. I was quite surprised as I thought for most of my life they were .69s.

Worst case scenario I measure the diameter of the bore and go from there. I'll keep what you said in mind, thank you!

 

[johnputnam1]

Well so it's a .69 if it's a Charleville made in Italy or Japan... can't say for those from India.

The complete lack of marking on the lock makes me think it's other than Japan or Italy.

LD

Good to know, Thank you!

 

[Leadball loader]

Looks like a Belgian made gun in the 60’s and 70’s.
I have one that looks similar and is a 20 gauge.
Should have a black powder proof stamped on the breech end of the barrel.
LBL

 

[FlinterNick]

Every original Charly I have ever handled was a .72. I handled hundreds of them at RIACo when I worked there and measured the bore of every one. I was quite surprised as I thought for most of my life they were .69s.

Yeap, original Charlevilles were in .72. The french requirement was that they be bored in a minimum of .69.

 

[FlinterNick]

Hey, I'm new to this site and I need help finding out which model this Charleville is. I bought it today at a gun show (It's a reproduction) and the guy who sold it said it was a .72, I just want to be certain which model it is before I do anything with it. Thanks! Second question, It is missing a bayonet lug and I would like to find a way to put one on there, any suggestions?

That looks like an Armi Sport limited edition Charleville from the 1980’s. They attempted to make a 1777 model, the lock was smaller than a typical 1777 musket.

There were also a number of Belgian companies making these style of muskets, they called them trade guns.

 

[Mle1822]

Yeap, original Charlevilles were in .72. The french requirement was that they be bored in a minimum of .69.

If by Charlevilles You mean the Mle 1777 than the bore would be between 17,5 and 17,8mm. Anything above that would be the result of excessive usage.

 

[FlinterNick]

If by Charlevilles You mean the Mle 1777 than the bore would be between 17,5 and 17,8mm. Anything above that would be the result of excessive usage.

No my meaning was that many originals were in .72 caliber, not because of usage. I have two original 77 barrels in very good shape, both are .725. The original 1763 barrel i have is .689, my original 1766 is .72. Per my research, the french mandated the calibers be a minimum of .69 and a maximum of .72. There was no edict that they had to be in .69.

 

[Mle1822]

Were the barrels produced in a french arsenal according to the regulations, or were they produced, say in Turin ? Were the barrels rebuilt, for example by a prussian arsenal to match the prussian ammunition ? As far as the prussian measurements of captured french muskets done after 1806 (so not in 2023), the barrels were 17,5 to 17,8mm. Measuring anything that has left oficial service and was private property in problematic.