Hunting Elk in CO

[Christophero]

Not sure where I should start. I have 2 jugs of 3f Goex. What charge to put under the conical for best accuracy....I understand that range time will tell me more, just looking for a starting point.

I've shot many 50 Caliber 355 grain T/C MaxiHunter Conical bullets with 65 grains of fffg Geox. Velocity was just about 1,200 fps. Same charge I use for PRB's. When I upped the charge with the soft lead bullets they began to strip out of the T/C Renegade rifling with a 1/48" twist, accuracy fell off fast. A slower twist may not have that problem, though. That combination has killed many deer over the decades.

 

[beardedhorse]

The Saturday, March 13th Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association's Winter Convention has been cancelled. I have hunted elk wih .54 round ball in Colorado with good success and results the past 37 years. The recent minimal caliber change irked a lot of hunters, especially those shooting and owning .50 caliber rifles.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

The Saturday, March 13th Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association's Winter Convention has been cancelled. I have hunted elk wih .54 round ball in Colorado with good success and results the past 37 years. The recent minimal caliber change irked a lot of hunters, especially those shooting and owning .50 caliber rifles.

Yeah I get it...I don't understand the projectile limitations...

It might have something to do with hunters taking excessively long shots with the .50 while hunting elk. Under 50 yards and you should be solid with a RB out of a .50 calibre. As you get beyond 50 yards shot placement becomes more critical and more challenging.

...just thinking out loud.

 

[k.jacobfrost]

I use to live in Colorado and was ****** when they changed the regs for elk. They seem to still think that a .50 cal rb is perfectly fine for bear and moose but not elk? I don't get it.

It's possible that with a 1:66 twist, your barrel is just not able to stabilize a conical which is why you are not getting good accuracy with them.

 

[CoHiCntry]

It might have something to do with hunters taking excessively long shots with the .50 while hunting elk. Under 50 yards and you should be solid with a RB out of a .50 calibre. As you get beyond 50 yards shot placement becomes more critical and more challenging.

...just thinking out loud.

I hear what you’re saying but... how would they know if hunters are taking longer shots than they should with a .50 RB? I mean it’s not like hunters are reporting they’re shot distances & the results.

The same could be said for archery hunters, shooting farther than they should. I can pretty much guarantee there are way, way more elk shot with arrows & injured or never recovered from archery hunters every year than .50 RB.

I bet out of all the muzzleloader hunters in CO, less than 10% are using a RB anyway?

I’d love to hear some reasoning from CPW on this but haven’t heard anything so far. I was hoping it would get challenged & possibly over turned, but doesn’t look like that’s happening either.

OP... if you aren’t totally opposed to shooting a conical, there’s several out there that would fit the bill so you don’t have to buy a new rifle.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I use to live in Colorado and was ****** when they changed the regs for elk. They seem to still think that a .50 cal rb is perfectly fine for bear and moose but not elk? I don't get it.

.50 RB isn’t legal for moose either in CO. Only for deer, antelope & bear.

 

[k.jacobfrost]

.50 RB isn’t legal for moose either in CO. Only for deer, antelope & bear.

Huh. It's been a couple of years sense I looked into the regs, but I'm pretty sure the first year they made the change for elk, .50 was still allowed for moose. It's also been a while and I could be misremembering things.

 

[longcruise]

50 is ok for moose and elk as long as the projectile weighs at least 210 grains.

The reason for the change is a bit of a convoluted tale.

First off, understand that the "regulations" found in your hunting brochure does not precisely reflect the "statutes" or actual law. In this case it came to the attention of the regulations dept. of Parks and Wildlife (PAW) that a ball shot from a muzzle loader is not the same diameter as the bore. That they are actually 49 and 495 caliber. The statutes state that the minimum PROJECTILE for elk and moose is 50. Therefore a patched ball in a 50 rifle didn't meet the legal requirements.

I know it's hard to believe that the PAW professionals didn't know this but apparently some didn't. Those who did know probably never gave it any thought. OTOH, I'm pretty sure that there was an underlying desire within PAW to require a 54 for those two animals. Probably also some influence from the "modern" muzzle loader purveyors and "believers" too.

Also note that while the 40 to 50 calibers are legal for deer, antelope, bear and mountain lion, the minimum projectile weight for all of the 40 through 50 calibers is 170 grains. So, if you know your ball weights you can see that the only PRBs that are legal for ANY big game hunters are shot from 50 and 54 rifles. The tweeners sneaking in are some of the guns less than 54 but greater than 50 caliber that load a minimum 210 grain ball. Historically those were not uncommon but pretty rare today.

 

[Longrifle]

Update: Still rockin my .50, but inherited a .54. So I will most likely use that if I draw an elk tag. If I only draw deer, the .50 is going afield.


Its CPW.....Colorado Parks & Wildlife. I have read and understand the regs completely....I live here. They( the regs and those who write them) are stupid none the less. Elk evidently get tougher through the years. To say that it's about the diameter of the projectile is b.s. Think about it, instead of screwing everyone trying to do things the traditional way, they could have amended ther statutes and regs the other way to allow a .490RB.

If a hunter can kill an elk with an arrow, a .490RB will do the job.

 

[Idaho Ron]

First off, understand that the "regulations" found in your hunting brochure does not precisely reflect the "statutes" or actual law. In this case it came to the attention of the regulations dept. of Parks and Wildlife (PAW) that a ball shot from a muzzle loader is not the same diameter as the bore. That they are actually 49 and 495 caliber. The statutes state that the minimum PROJECTILE for elk and moose is 50. Therefore a patched ball in a 50 rifle didn't meet the legal requirements.

Idaho basically said 50 is minimum for elk, moose, bear, Sheep, Goats and then they said a bullet could be no more than .010 under the bore diameter. In our case 49 is legal. My paper patched bullets are actually .496 I hunt with. I do wish that they would remove the minimum caliber and go with a minimum projectile weight. Say for elk 170 gr minimum weight.

My 45 is illegal to use for elk. But if I loaded the same bullet in a 43 Spanish cartridge it would be legal. Even though my load in my muzzleloader is much more robust than that of the old cartridge gun.

To make things worse, Idaho allows hunting elk with a 25 ACP pistol but not a 45 cal muzzleloader with a 408 gr bullet going 1400+ Fps

 

[azmntman]

Sounds like AZ. Ya'all practice up with yer .32 crocketts and come on over

 

[longcruise]

Idaho basically said 50 is minimum for elk, moose, bear, Sheep, Goats and then they said a bullet could be no more than .010 under the bore diameter. In our case 49 is legal. My paper patched bullets are actually .496 I hunt with. I do wish that they would remove the minimum caliber and go with a minimum projectile weight. Say for elk 170 gr minimum weight.

My 45 is illegal to use for elk. But if I loaded the same bullet in a 43 Spanish cartridge it would be legal. Even though my load in my muzzleloader is much more robust than that of the old cartridge gun.

To make things worse, Idaho allows hunting elk with a 25 ACP pistol but not a 45 cal muzzleloader with a 408 gr bullet going 1400+ Fps

Yes, colorado could do a focus on projectile weight rather than ball size IMO.

When I lion hunt I have to follow the muzzle loading big game requirements but other lion hunters can use a 22 mag rimfire.. go figger.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Yes, colorado could do a focus on projectile weight rather than ball size IMO.

When I lion hunt I have to follow the muzzle loading big game requirements but other lion hunters can use a 22 mag rimfire.. go figger.

Exactly

 

[LeonardC]

Muzzleloading hunting regulations are "interesting". Here is the Alaska regulations for hunting Bison with a ML.

Weapons Legal for Bison Hunting

1. Rifle/Handgun: Must fire a minimum of a 175 grain bullet having a minimum of 2,800 ft/lb energy at the muzzle.

2. Muzzleloader: Muzzle-loading rifles must be .54 caliber or larger, or at least .45 caliber with a 300 grain or larger elongated slug. Further, for safety reasons, those hunting with muzzleloaders must also have within easy reach a smokeless powder rifle meeting the centerfire rifle requirements listed above.

 

[BS]

50 is OK, 54 is better, but the 58 is better yet! If you can find one.