Hornady P A Conicals

[Blackfingers]

During the Winter shoots at my BP club, I'm looking into these bullets for a quick load instead of the patch and ball for the monthly shoot, my fingers just won't stand-up to the cold anymore. I figure since this bullet is heavier than my round ball, a stiffer charge is needed, just want to have some feedback on the accuracy of them. My club allows these conicals for local club shoots. Your comments?

 

[ohio ramrod]

Try them and see! :idunno:

 

[amcmullen]

Am going to try them tomorrow out of a T/C Hawken 1:48 and possibly my Traditions Hawken 1:66 I will let you know how they perform.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Am going to try them tomorrow out of a T/C Hawken 1:48 and possibly my Traditions Hawken 1:66 I will let you know how they perform.

Yes, please report back, particularly with results from the slower twist barrel, which is what they were supposedly designed for. I don't really have any issues with a patched round ball but it's hard not to be curious about a bullet that would be as accurate and provide a bit more energy, all things being equal. I have a box at home and just haven't really gotten curious enough yet......

 

[Don Steele]

Like Ohio Ramrod said...try'em out..see what you can learn.
I did just that, in Nov. 2014: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/291732/post/1439335/hl//fromsearch/1/

Note: I was NOT trying to identify a "best load". I wanted a direct "Apples to apples" comparison where the only variable is the projectile.

 

[Spikebuck]

You'll have to give them a try. I read both good and bad here as far as results people get.

I did not shoot the Hornady PA, but have shot the Buffalo Ball-et, which is essentially the same thing. In four different guns, in 50 and 54, but all with slow twist, shallow groove barrels, the Ball-ets performed very well for me. I shot a few deer with them with good results...one a nice doe at 115 yards and it broke ribs on both sides going all the way through.

 

[galamb]

I have a 50 cal, 1:70 twist (Green Mountain) cap gun that I shoot "nothing but" PA's from. This is NOT my normal Bambi gun but use it with the PA's if I will be hunting unfamiliar territory and want the extra "horsepower".

Yes, they are heavier - 240 grains, so you get the same mass as if you were shooting a 54 round ball so they kinda "super charge" your 50 cal without going to a full conical.

I load them over 80 grains of FFF Goex which is where I stopped when working up the charge. That met my distance/accuracy needs and the math said the terminal energy was more than I needed, so figured no sense punishing my shoulder any more than necessary.

Yes, they make the rifle kick harder than a PRB.

I have found them no more or no less accurate than roundballs out of that particular rifle (when I shot round balls with it) - which means they are under 2" @ 75 yards which is my self-imposed max range for any of my BP guns.

I shoot to kill animals - chronographs and paper don't taste good no matter how you cook them. So 2" "within shooting range" is more accurate than I need from that rifle.

I have found accuracy has much more to do with the particular barrel and the powder charge (when shooting anything other than round balls) - plus how steady/shaky the guy/gal pulling the trigger is.

I'm shaky, so there isn't very much I can't stuff down the tube and get the same result :wink:

 

[GANGGREEN]

Graham (or others), I'm curious what you do about grease. Perhaps mine have just been stored in my closet for too long, but they have what seems like a very sticky lube on them and I've always been a bit hesitant to stuff that down my barrels for whatever reason. Do you shoot them straight out of the box with the heavy/sticky grease on them, do you wipe off much of the grease before loading or do you clean them up entirely and use some other type of grease? No issues with the clean-up, the same as a patched round ball mostly?

 

[amcmullen]

Graham (or others), I'm curious what you do about grease. Perhaps mine have just been stored in my closet for too long, but they have what seems like a very sticky lube on them and I've always been a bit hesitant to stuff that down my barrels for whatever reason. Do you shoot them straight out of the box with the heavy/sticky grease on them, do you wipe off much of the grease before loading or do you clean them up entirely and use some other type of grease? No issues with the clean-up, the same as a patched round ball mostly?

That's exactly how they are, very tacky.

Okay, here are my results in a nutshell from today's shooting. I will post pictures in an hour or two once I get everything in order around the house.
The bad, My T/C with a 1:48" barrel HATED the PA Conicals! I had one shot that was a foot and a half High! others were off to one side or another. I tried different loads with the same inconsistent results.

The Good, My Traditions with a 1:66 barrel liked them! I shot groups of three shots with 65, 80 and 95grains with both PRB and PA Conicals. Accuracy was pretty similar with both projectiles along the spectrum of loads.

Bottom Line, I would absolutely hunt with them out of my Traditions 1:66. With My T/C, I may be just as accurate throwing the gun at the target. However, I have found that my T/C is VERY particular with loads and projectiles.

That's my findings for today, probably only worth $0.01

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks SEPAflint. I'll be curious to see the photos of the groups and you've motivated me to give them a try sometime after the season closes.

 

[galamb]

I too shoot them exactly the way they come out of the (baggie), all sticky and gloopy (that's the technical term I think)

I don't even finger wipe them a bit. I don't know if all that extra lube helps or hurts anything, but the barrel seems to clean up easy enough, so don't think it hurts anything.

Hornady designed these "specifically" for a 1:66 twist - an option for the slower twist (production gun barrels) that couldn't shoot (regular) conicals worth a manure.

I did talk to a Hornady rep and he said they had tested them out from 1:72 to 1:48. Said it would shoot from most but did start to get more ("wild" - don't remember the exact word he used) as the twist rate increased.

 

[amcmullen]

Okay so here is my baseline three shots 65gr 3F Patched round balls. I am still struggling with this new front sight (a lot wider than the one that was on it) so my groups are not as tight as I'd like but oh well. The next group was with 80 grns PRB. I imagine that the low shot was probably due to sight alignment. The red circle is 6 inches so at 50 yds I had a 3.5" group . The gun is a Traditions with a 1:66" rifling (bottom pic shows the T/C group...or lack thereof)
]Link[/url]

Here is 65 grains and 80 grains with the PA Conicals. The poi is about the same as the PRB at 50 yds
]Link[/url]

After shooting the conicals with 65 and 80 grains I was having a heck of a time loading PRB's. The tacky lube of the PA Conicals was coating the first 6 inches of the bore and I had to use some serious force. So after the 80 grain groups I swabbed the bore with T17 and moved on to 95 grains.
]Link[/url]

Again, not my best shooting and I did have a few odd balls but that was probably me more than the bullets .
...Oh, and for you T/C shooters...first high one was 65 grains the top one was 80 and there was another to the left but I didn't even mark it because I was so disgusted.
]Link[/url]

again, just my results from today's shooting

 

[amcmullen]

So all in all the PA Conicals shot pretty well for me throughout the range of Black powder charges that I used. I am sure that if I used a better rest and took my time I could get better results with both.

Would I use them hunting? Absolutely!
Would I use them over a PRB? For the hunting that I do absolutely not, they cost a lot more and the results are about the same as a PRB. Now, If they were required by law or if I were going for bigger game than our typical 130 lb doe, than yes.

...now as you can see, I did a lot of shooting today so I need to go clean some guns!

 

[Walks with fire]

When I tried them in a TC 1/66 twist they shot ok but not as good as my ball load. I didn't like all the sticky lube and didn't feel they loaded any quicker. I also didn't like the fact that they moved off the charge if I bounced the muzzle a little on a 2x4; conical bullets scare me.

I read a post where crunching them down on the powder charge would swell the skirt enough that they would stay put and it worked good for me. My GM .50 1/70 twist didn't shoot them well though and it's so darned accurate with a .495 ball I doubt I would change that load even if they did group well.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I'm still curious about them but feel mostly the way you do. I purchase or build rifles with a slow twist with the full intention of using round balls and I work at finding a load/patch combination that shoots balls well. The real benefit to this sort of ammo is clearly that it provides more energy, all other things being equal, so if someone has a load that fires very well out of their rifle with the PA conical, I can't find any fault with them for using it. I guess I'm even more curious and interested if they make it in a .45. I know that thousands of deer have been killed with .45s and even smaller caliber roundballs, but personally, I lean towards the .54 more and more (though I built myself a .50 and killed a doe with it this fall).

I have a .36, will be adding a .40 very soon, have two .50s and one .54, so I'm building myself a .45 at some time soon. Again, I know that a .45 roundball is capable, but I've had plenty of poor blood trails and long tracking jobs with .50s and even .54s after a well-placed shot, so if I'm going to hunt deer with a .45, I at least want to consider the possibility of using a heavier cast bullet. We'll see.

 

[Walks with fire]

Lately I have been shooting a couple of Lyman 1/48 twist .54 and they have been doing ok but I have not been able to take a deer yet this year. My .50's have not been used much since I got the .54's and I have this desire to get a .58 caliber to try out. Paper patch is the way to go with a conical and .45 is my caliber of choice for that but just try and find a fast twist .45 barrel.

I have not seen any ball-et style conical in years now. It's all .50 now that Buffalo Bullets went out of business. I sure miss that company. I wish someone would buy the business and start it up again. It's a small market though and getting smaller.

 

[galamb]

The PA Conical from Hornady ONLY comes in 50 cal and only in a 240 grain configuration.

The Buffalo Bullet company used to make Ball-ete's for a number of calibers but after they went out of business, or were bought out or reconfigured or whatever, they never brought the Ball-ete's back but there still may be a few kicking around in old-stock.

For the 45 I believe that T/C still has a Maxi and Lee still makes a couple of molds for the REAL bullets. But that's about it for a "hunting" round.

 

[Walks with fire]

That's kind of why I went up to the .54 ball for a little more weight and diameter. The .50's killed just fine but I have BP disease and more stuff is the only cure.

I have this delusion going that I will go down to one rifle someday but I can't part with the ones that don't get used much anymore. They didn't cost that much and they aren't eating anything unless they go to the range once in a while. Tried everything that can go down a flint barrel but I never could shake the patched ball.