Help identifying original jaeger

[coehornboy]

I figure someone out there will have some info on this rifle. This Jaeger belonged to my Gr-Gr-Grandfather, who carried in in the Santa Clara Valley in a saddle scabbard.

The patch box contains a paper label that reads "Jas. C. Murray.

The barrel is swamped and the muzzle end of the stock has horn inlaid

The lock has no markings and is not a usual jaeger style lock. It is highly engraved, as is the hammer. The triggerguard has matching designs.

Here is a photo of the cheekpiece:

The gun was a basket case when I received it age age 14 (almost 30 years ago)...it had been made into a lamp prior to WWI. :cursing: :shake:

Anyone familiar with the maker? Any other photos or info needed?

 

Hmmmm, very cool. With a swamped barrel I would almost guess it may have been originally a flintlock. I find it interesting that it lacks a sideplate and has only one lockplate screw. I'm sure Fatdutchman will weigh in on this(no pun intended).

 

[coehornboy]

Jaegermeister: I had been told that there was a J. Murray, gunsmith, in San Francisco prior to the civil war. I also have sen references for reproduction confederate muskets from the Civil War made by J. Murray

 

Very true. The sliding wooden patchbox seems to say that this gun was born somewhat earlier and much further east though. Heck, I don't know. I think it was J. P. Murray of civil war fame and this is J. O. Murray.

 

[benvenuto]

Its a late german jaeger rifle, probably 1840's -1860's. The barrel may have been recycled from an older gun - it pays to check for markings. Murray was probably the importer or gun seller not the maker.

Is that some kind of vent in the middle of the lockplate? haven't seen that before...

 

[mikelange]

I agree with Benvenuto about the provenance of this rifle. The lock is an original percussion -- no signs of plugged holes for frizzen or frizzen spring, no pan remnants, and the lockplate itself is a little small in certain areas to have once been a flinter, anyhow. I'm inclined to guess that the flaw or peened-over area behind the bolster breech is the hole that a lockbolt originally threaded into, that's been plugged, but that's just a hunch. It would fit in with the idea that the swamped barrel was from an earlier gun; specifically, that a 19th-century gunsmith put this rifle together from parts that had been used previously on other guns. Again, just a guess with absolutely no authority behind it. As long as I'm on this track -- making unfounded suppositions -- I will go further out on a limb (knowing that someone is already preparing to saw it off behind me) and suggest that this rifle may have been put together, from used parts, at a point when the South's ability to manufacture new weapons was failing to keep up with the demands of her forces in the field. At any rate, it's an interesting gun, and deserves better than conversion to a lamp.

 

[silverfox]

I would have to go along with some of the others on this but have to add my 2 cents.
It looked like something I have so I got out my German double from Waldzee? Southern Germany. The wooden patchbox looks exactly the same and then the photo of the cheekpiece again the lines are exactly the same except mine has carving behind the cheekpiece. The hammer has the same shape and mine has a safety about where the hole is in the lockplate. All though mine is backaction locks.
You can put this with the other opinions and maybe come up with a better idea about your gun. That's a nice looking gun you have and deserves some TLC.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[coehornboy]

Thanks for the info, everyone...

I have seen locks with a safety where the hole is in the lockplate.

My Gr-Gr-Grandfather Joachim came from Northern Germany as a child in the 1850's...maybe the gun was brought over by the family??

When I received the gun at age 14, the wood was splintered and worn at the muzzle (reportedly from the saddle scabbard), the innards of the lock had been removed, the top two thimbles were removed where a brass tube was inserted for a lamp cord. Lastly, a huge chunk of wood was removed from the breech area so that a block of wood could be attached to hold the rifle upright. My dad replaced the lock parts, and I fitted new steel thimbles, replaced wood and horn at the muzzle (see previous photos), and also replaced the wood at the breech (visable in the lock photos). OK work for a 14 year old, however, being slightly more sophisticanted today, I may re-do the earlier repair in the breech area with wood that matches closer in grain.

Here's the muzle:

I also removed the lock and barrel this a.m. No markings on the lock. The barrel has a 6 and 4 stamped on the breech plug, and "H I" stamped on he barrel (perhaps it is "I H"). :v