This is so cool. Detective work here!
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Help identify my .44 Revolver
- Thread starter PathfinderNC
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sourdough
40 Cal
That photo sure caught my eye! WOW! Don't even think of shooting it!
That revolver of yours was specifically created for and the barrel addressed to William B. Edwards. Edwards was a significant player in the creation of the original Navy Arms revolvers (Val Forgett and Company), later to be the major player with the Centennial Arms Company (Chicago IL) in the very early 60's importing Belgian Centaure revolvers [made by FAUL in Liege Belgium FROCS – Friends of the Centaure Society (1960nma.org)]
Edwards has also written several books on the original 19th century revolvers that these repros are based upon.
This Navy Arms Rigarmi revolver was offered on GB with the two cylinders (one plain, one engraved) with the similar barrel marking ADDRESS BILL EDWARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA about a year ago and I did not have the "mad money" to acquire it.
If you want to shoot something, this is not the revolver to use.
Regards,
Jim
Holy smoke. Thank you so much for this background! I had no idea... I hate to keep it just for gathering dust though. I have to consider what I should do with it now!
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This got interesting didn’t it !
William B. (Bill) Edwards was an early importer of replicas and at one time operated under the Gold Rush Guns name. He was the author of "Civil War Guns". He had a law suit against Val Forget Jr. back in the 1970s which I believe he won. Unfortunately I don't remember any of the details even though Edwards told me the story in some detail at a gun show circa '75.
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Duh, no wonder his name sounded familiar, his "Civil War Guns" is under the work bench with other gun reference books 
. That's a real cool find BTW.
. That's a real cool find BTW.
So, would this pistol have been one of his original reproduction revolvers? Who inscribed his name on the barrel?
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Done at the factory tongue in cheek as an homage to "ADDRESS SAML COLT NEW-YORK CITY" as found on Colt's pistols would be my guess.
I was reading up on this pistol (one of four as I can figure it out).
https://www.gunvaluesboard.com/i-ha...y-replica-1860-manufactured-in...-528326.htmlOne commentated that
Rigarmi produced the four revolvers for Bill Edwards that bear the barrel markings:
- ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA -
The Italians mistakenly used the letter "U" instead of "W"! The From a letter Dr. Jim Davis received from William Edwards dated August 24, 2002, Bill Edwards states,
"In the 1970s I obtained from Rino Galesi and from Luciano Amadi, Navys and Remingtons. These were roll marked ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA in emulation of Colt's markings as they consider that I was the spiritual if not the generic descendant of Sam Colt!"
This information was given directly to me by Dr.im Davis before his passing.
Woodlander
5 months ago
"It was not really a mistake, as W is a letter which does not exist in the Italian alphabet. Furthermore, U and V are very close in pronunciation, and may be used indifferently sometimes. U and V were the very same letter in Latin.
I read the same story about these revolvers, I think in an article about Bill Edwards.
This is definitely one of the very few Graals for a replicas collector."
Dang...
https://www.gunvaluesboard.com/i-ha...y-replica-1860-manufactured-in...-528326.htmlOne commentated that
Rigarmi produced the four revolvers for Bill Edwards that bear the barrel markings:
- ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA -
The Italians mistakenly used the letter "U" instead of "W"! The From a letter Dr. Jim Davis received from William Edwards dated August 24, 2002, Bill Edwards states,
"In the 1970s I obtained from Rino Galesi and from Luciano Amadi, Navys and Remingtons. These were roll marked ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA in emulation of Colt's markings as they consider that I was the spiritual if not the generic descendant of Sam Colt!"
This information was given directly to me by Dr.im Davis before his passing.
Woodlander
5 months ago
"It was not really a mistake, as W is a letter which does not exist in the Italian alphabet. Furthermore, U and V are very close in pronunciation, and may be used indifferently sometimes. U and V were the very same letter in Latin.
I read the same story about these revolvers, I think in an article about Bill Edwards.
This is definitely one of the very few Graals for a replicas collector."
Dang...
Paul Nelson
Live Free or Die .54 cal
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Paul Nelson
Live Free or Die .54 cal
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XX8=1972
Eras Gone
Pilgrim
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I also have one of the Bill Eduards marked Remingtons. I think 5 or 6 have surfaced so far. I suspect there are others, and many more than Dr Jim Davis suggested in some if his writings. If you dont mind, share your serial number. My serial number is 13009. At last count, mine had the earliest serial number for an Eduards gun.
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The number is on the bottom of the grip strap I am attaching a photo. I could not find another one on the gun anywhere.
Attachments
sourdough
40 Cal
Per Dr. Jim L. Davis:
The revolvers so far uncovered that were sent to him are a Remington New Model Army, an 1860 Army (the subject revolver above?), a Model 1851 Navy Brass with engraved cylinder, and a Schneider & Glassick, an 1851 brass frame Navy with plain cylinder. At that time the plain cylinder on what is the Schneider & Glassick was an example of a cost cutting step in production. All four of these revolvers were in the RPRCA (Dr. James L Davis) collection and were obtained through auctions, on Gun Broker and Auction Arms at prices in the $1400 range per revolver.
Around October/November 2019 The Davis collection was sold whole (or in most part) by an outfit called October Country. They had no clue as to what they possessed and sold many guns for way below collector/market value. I strived to save as many photos of those guns as I could but there were just so many. It was a feeding frenzy back then and my "mad money" account could not keep up with it.
I would not doubt that I passed up upon one of the Afton guns.
Regards,
Jim
The revolvers so far uncovered that were sent to him are a Remington New Model Army, an 1860 Army (the subject revolver above?), a Model 1851 Navy Brass with engraved cylinder, and a Schneider & Glassick, an 1851 brass frame Navy with plain cylinder. At that time the plain cylinder on what is the Schneider & Glassick was an example of a cost cutting step in production. All four of these revolvers were in the RPRCA (Dr. James L Davis) collection and were obtained through auctions, on Gun Broker and Auction Arms at prices in the $1400 range per revolver.
Around October/November 2019 The Davis collection was sold whole (or in most part) by an outfit called October Country. They had no clue as to what they possessed and sold many guns for way below collector/market value. I strived to save as many photos of those guns as I could but there were just so many. It was a feeding frenzy back then and my "mad money" account could not keep up with it.
I would not doubt that I passed up upon one of the Afton guns.
Regards,
Jim
I wonder why mine does not have the RAG symbol?
Roy L. Oak
32 Cal
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From the Facebook Group Cap & Ball Revolvers, Pistols and Rifles document tilted: The BILL EDUARDS Addressed Revolvers which I wrote about a year or so ago and thought it might be helpful in this thread.
The story on the auction site, pertaining to an 1860 Colt Army being auctioned off back in 2010, goes like this:
"This is a late 1960’s-Early ‘70’s reproduction of the Colt 1860 Army Revolver in .44 Caliber, imported by William B. Edwards (Bill Edwards). The back story of this Revolver is that Bill Edwards, who was the founder of the Civil War reproduction industry and author of the book "Civil War Guns", was the first to start looking to have this manufactured in Europe and had these made to be imported. He had them marked “ADDRESS BILL EDWARDS AFTON, V.A. U.S. AMERICA“ similar to the originals that were marked “SAM COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA” that the 1860’s were known for. As for condition, it is in BEAUTIFUL brand new condition (serial # 8069) in the original covered box! This is an rare revolver, .i.e. the "One that started the 1860 Reproduction Crazy", waiting to be showcased in any SERIOUS collector’s display case!"
The buyer of this particular 1860 was Dr. James Davis of the RPRCA (Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association) and he informed me of the following information..
Unfortunately, according to Dr. Davis, that story is not quite accurate. There is another explanation for this revolver and others like it. Here is how that particular 1860 Colt Army revolver....and other revolvers, including an 1858 Remington New Army revolver with the same address mark on it became reproductions and the rarest of the rare.
There were replica revolvers that were supplied to Bill Edwards, partner in Centennial Arms Corp., in an attempt to persuade him to use Rigarmi (RAG) as a future supplier of the revolvers. The revolvers so far uncovered that were sent to him are Remington New Model Armies, Colt 1860 Armies (the subject revolver above?), Colt Model 1851 Navies w/Brass frame and engraved cylinder, and a Schneider & Glassick which is an 1851 brass frame Navy with plain cylinder. At that time the plain cylinder on what is the Schneider & Glassick was an example of a cost cutting step in production. All four of these revolvers were in the RPRCA (Dr. James H Davis) collection and were obtained through auctions, on Gun Broker and Auction Arms at prices in the $1400 range per revovler. The three obtained on Auction Arms were posted by Sarco, Inc. Bill Edwards had presented these three revolvers to Charlie Steen, President of Sarco, Inc. four decades ago, after he had received them from RigArmi.
Rigarmi produced the four revolvers for Bill Edwards that bear the barrel markings:
- ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA -
The Italians mistakenly used the letter "U" instead of "W"!
From a letter Dr. Jim Davis received from William Edwards dated August 24, 2002, Bill Edwards states,
"In the 1970s I obtained from Rino Galesi (RG) and from Luciano Amadi, Navys and Remingtons. These were roll marked ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA in emulation of Colt's markings as they consider that I was the spiritual if not the generic descendant of Sam Colt!"
So there we have it and how these revolvers came to be. And we notice that Bill Edwards stated Navys and Remingtons, plural. So we really don’t know exactly how many were actually sent to Bill Edwards. It seems, from further research that there may have been as many as three or four of each of the four revolvers, since we have come across at least three Remingtons that can be accounted for. Where are they now? As of April 24, 2020 Dr. Davis’ four revovlers had been in the possession of October Country and were available for purchase. Those were sold that same year. Since that time at least one Remington is in the collection of Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone By Bullet Molds and another has been in the collection of PathfinderNC of the Muzzleloadinf Forum. As others may come to light I will continue to update this document.
References:
Edwards, William B. “Unpublished research Notes for Civil War Guns and other publications” Afton, VA.
Davis, Dr. James H, unpublished notes and “Schneider & Glassick - The “Accidental” Replica Revolver”
I hope this helps with some identificationa dn Eras Gone and I need to get that list of known serial numbers going so we can begin to better document how many of these revovlers are actually out there.
The story on the auction site, pertaining to an 1860 Colt Army being auctioned off back in 2010, goes like this:
"This is a late 1960’s-Early ‘70’s reproduction of the Colt 1860 Army Revolver in .44 Caliber, imported by William B. Edwards (Bill Edwards). The back story of this Revolver is that Bill Edwards, who was the founder of the Civil War reproduction industry and author of the book "Civil War Guns", was the first to start looking to have this manufactured in Europe and had these made to be imported. He had them marked “ADDRESS BILL EDWARDS AFTON, V.A. U.S. AMERICA“ similar to the originals that were marked “SAM COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA” that the 1860’s were known for. As for condition, it is in BEAUTIFUL brand new condition (serial # 8069) in the original covered box! This is an rare revolver, .i.e. the "One that started the 1860 Reproduction Crazy", waiting to be showcased in any SERIOUS collector’s display case!"
The buyer of this particular 1860 was Dr. James Davis of the RPRCA (Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association) and he informed me of the following information..
Unfortunately, according to Dr. Davis, that story is not quite accurate. There is another explanation for this revolver and others like it. Here is how that particular 1860 Colt Army revolver....and other revolvers, including an 1858 Remington New Army revolver with the same address mark on it became reproductions and the rarest of the rare.
There were replica revolvers that were supplied to Bill Edwards, partner in Centennial Arms Corp., in an attempt to persuade him to use Rigarmi (RAG) as a future supplier of the revolvers. The revolvers so far uncovered that were sent to him are Remington New Model Armies, Colt 1860 Armies (the subject revolver above?), Colt Model 1851 Navies w/Brass frame and engraved cylinder, and a Schneider & Glassick which is an 1851 brass frame Navy with plain cylinder. At that time the plain cylinder on what is the Schneider & Glassick was an example of a cost cutting step in production. All four of these revolvers were in the RPRCA (Dr. James H Davis) collection and were obtained through auctions, on Gun Broker and Auction Arms at prices in the $1400 range per revovler. The three obtained on Auction Arms were posted by Sarco, Inc. Bill Edwards had presented these three revolvers to Charlie Steen, President of Sarco, Inc. four decades ago, after he had received them from RigArmi.
Rigarmi produced the four revolvers for Bill Edwards that bear the barrel markings:
- ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA -
The Italians mistakenly used the letter "U" instead of "W"!
From a letter Dr. Jim Davis received from William Edwards dated August 24, 2002, Bill Edwards states,
"In the 1970s I obtained from Rino Galesi (RG) and from Luciano Amadi, Navys and Remingtons. These were roll marked ADDRESS BILL EDUARDS AFTON VA US AMERICA in emulation of Colt's markings as they consider that I was the spiritual if not the generic descendant of Sam Colt!"
So there we have it and how these revolvers came to be. And we notice that Bill Edwards stated Navys and Remingtons, plural. So we really don’t know exactly how many were actually sent to Bill Edwards. It seems, from further research that there may have been as many as three or four of each of the four revolvers, since we have come across at least three Remingtons that can be accounted for. Where are they now? As of April 24, 2020 Dr. Davis’ four revovlers had been in the possession of October Country and were available for purchase. Those were sold that same year. Since that time at least one Remington is in the collection of Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone By Bullet Molds and another has been in the collection of PathfinderNC of the Muzzleloadinf Forum. As others may come to light I will continue to update this document.
References:
Edwards, William B. “Unpublished research Notes for Civil War Guns and other publications” Afton, VA.
Davis, Dr. James H, unpublished notes and “Schneider & Glassick - The “Accidental” Replica Revolver”
I hope this helps with some identificationa dn Eras Gone and I need to get that list of known serial numbers going so we can begin to better document how many of these revovlers are actually out there.
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