Have you had a chain fire with?

[Many Klatch]

I had a chain fire on a new to me 1858 Remington.

I don't use Crisco anymore because after the first shot or two all the back blast from the barrel has pretty much removed all the Crisco from the rest of the cylinders. So there was no Crisco or any other goop anywhere near the loading area.

I was having problems with the original Italian nipples being way undersized for the Remington caps that I was using. The cylinder before this chain fire happened I had caps falling off during the shooting. I had to shoot, add caps, shoot and add caps.

All the balls left complete rings of lead when I loaded. I was shooting 23 grains of 3F. I wasn't using wads, cornmeal or grease. The gun bucked a little more than normal with the chain shot and then the cylinder wouldn't turn for the next shot. The ball was wedged between the frame and the cylinder, but that was all the "damage" that I was ever able to find.

So, now I have new stainless steel nipples that are a tight fit with my caps and for the moment I am using Wonderwads over the powder.

Many Klatch

 

[Blizzard of '93]

the foto is of a nephew's '51 Navy fired at dusk - he's a lefty.
they way it was explained to me concerning the hammer position is that due to the exposure and flash required (digicam) the shot shows the hammer back when actually it's impacted the cap.
BTW he's a very good shot with that thing. it's a .36. cans at 25 yds get torn up near every shot.

 

[Zonie]

The picture looks like a time exposure coupled with a flash.

I think the flash went off just before the hammer started to fall and the rest of the flame/fire was caught by the open shutter when the gun fired.

 

[garandman]

"The wonderful world of illuuuuuuuusion..."

 

[dickydalton]

Guys, please, the hammer probably was thrown back by the gasses coming back through the nipple. I have seen videos of that and flinters that the hammer and frizzen go back and forth several times on one shot.
When nipple holes get burned out they can let wayyyy too much gas out the back on a cap n ball revolver.

 

[garandman]

Guys, please, the hammer probably was thrown back by the gasses coming back through the nipple. I have seen videos of that and flinters that the hammer and frizzen go back and forth several times on one shot.
When nipple holes get burned out they can let wayyyy too much gas out the back on a cap n ball revolver.

That's a possiblity, but the shower of sparks (esp the long arcing streamers) screams out time lapse fotography.

 

[Tater John]

Good Lord, jack hammering from blow back. Better not be! :bull: ff
Rusty

 

[crockett]

Wick: since chain firings aren't very common please give us as many details as you can remember. Had you been shooting for a while that day when the chain firibng occurred or was it the first cylinder shot that day? How well were the caps fitting? Tight ball (shaved lead), etc, etc. Do you feel it was because you didn't put lube over the ends?
The wads- same thing- not messy and they take up some room so you can shoot a more moderate powder charge and still have the ball near the end of the cylinder.

 

[crockett]

.36Navy: you're in a unique situation with several chain firings. Was it always the same other cylinder that experienced the chain firing? First round of shots for the day or had you been shooting for a while when the chain firing occurred? Please tell us as many details as you can remember, how deep the ball was seated, etc, etc.

 

[LRB]

The first time it happened was the first time I ever loaded a C&B revolver, and I forgot what my bud told me about the grease over the ball. It was the first loading of the day. Caps were snug enough they had to be thumb seated. Balls shaved a ring of lead. After the chain fire I continued loading and shooting without further incident, but I was using Crisco over the balls. Nothing else was changed. My bud shot for awhile after I did, and quite a lot in the following months using all the same components. It was his gun. The second incident was much the same as the first, except my own gun. Never had another incident afterwards, but have either used wads over powder, or grease over balls. I shot a Uberti Navy .36 long enough to wear it out, or lets say, just to loose to function as it should. I have fired many rounds with caps that had to be finger pinched to keep them on the nipples. You will have to draw your own conclusion.

 

[.36navy]

My gun is little unusual. I bought it a a pawn shop for $30 and it was not in perfect condition. The bolt spring was broke and the previous owner continued to shoot it. in doing so the hammer hit the space in between the cylinders causing the soft metal to expand. The cylinder would barely rotate. I bought and fitted a new bolt spring and filed the metal on the cylinders so it would rotate freely. The first 50 or so rounds I had no problems with chain fires using .375 balls and 20 grains of goex 3f. Then it started chain firing occasionally using the same load or lighter with Crisco as lube. It would always be the chamber to the left of the firing chamber. Then it did it regularly always the chamber to the right and if i was lucky it would fire 3 chambers at once. It would never fire the chamber under the loading lever or to the right of the barrel where capping is done ( this chamber was usually empty because i had a over sized nipple that caps would not go on with remington #10s) . Greasing the chambers did not stop it. I used CCI #10 and #11 but mostly Remington # 10s which fit the best. Most of the time the cap on the chain fired cylinder would be gone (but it was on before I fired) but one time I finished firing all the chambers (some through chain firing) and i went to reload and I had a chamber with a fired cap (through chain fire) but the chamber did not fire. I capped it and it fired. It was the second round of 5 that day. I bought a new pietta navy and have fired 150 rounds through it without grease and no chain fires at all.I don't regret buying that gun, it got me into blackpowder guns and now i'm hooked. Hope this helps ( note I was always shooting alone on private property not a shooting range)

 

[dickydalton]

At Great risk, I say: This is either BS or you aren't very smart.
You would actually keep shooting a gun that "Always" chain fires? Sometimes on the left and then on the right?
You must be running for office! :bull:

 

[cynthialee]

At Great risk, I say: This is either BS or you aren't very smart.
You would actually keep shooting a gun that "Always" chain fires? Sometimes on the left and then on the right?
You must be running for office! :bull:

:rotf:

 

[crockett]

Well, it would seem the lack of lube over the balls would likely be the cause since the follow up loading with the lube stopped the problem. I'm still of the opinion that there is a tremendous amount of flame and hot gases and any open path either at the nipples or end of cylinder could cause the chain firing. In other words: no lube or wads could cause a chain firing and also caps that are loose or falling off and exposing the nipple could do the same.
Since the Crisco has been reported to run out/burn/melt after a couple of shots- I am sort of thinking that wads over the powder and under the ball are better.That, along with caps fitting properly over the nipples, are probably the best approach to reduce the likelihood of a chain firing.

 

[cynthialee]

tight caps and a good filler like a pair of wads or corn meal and you won't have chainfires greese the top as a matter of course

 

[.36navy]

I was using grease and that did not stop the chain fires. Once it started chain firing every shot I stopped shooting it. I thought it was the head space problem causing it so I would try and file the frame back to where it did not have a problem then i would load two rounds and if they chain fired I wouldn't load up any more. once they fired correctly so I loaded up the rest and then it chain fired but I fired off the rest of the rounds because I thought it to be more dangerous to try to pull off the caps and unload the cylinder than to just shoot it off. I may not be smart but I was trying to make the pistol work and you don't know if you fixed the problem unless you shoot it. I no longer shoot this pistol I bought a new one that works fine so maybe i'm just slow.

 

[dickydalton]

I wasn't trying to be nasty, so please excuse me. I personally, would have took the nipples out and threw the gun in water and junked it. :idunno:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I have seen fotos of cracked cylinder chambers and read of out-of-round chambers which could be disastrous
mushroomed (worn out) nipples can prevent the caps from seating fully.
be safe now

 

[crockett]

Thanks .37Navy: Your straight answers are very helpful. Personally I think there are still some things about muzzle loading we don't know. On a rare occasion a guy will be reloading a long rifle and the compression of the air, or something, will explode the charge. Logical explanations are given to calm everyone's nerves. On the chain firing I have often wondered if there is some correlation between the frequency of the ajoining chamber almost always being the one that chain fires. The obvious explanation is that the flash, flame, and heat is closest but when you look at some of the posted photos it seems the flash and flame is all over the place- if the chain firing is because a cap got knocked off or grease melted out of a chamber- couldn't that occur on any chamber and wouldn't the other chamber that chain fired be more evenly distributed?
I wonder if they are any manufacturers that would like the faulty gun to use as an experiement to determine why is it chain firing.

 

[Tater John]

"grease melted out of a chamber", I see these sentences and ??????? All the grease doesn't melt away and the way I've seen a cylinder face greased and the way I greased them myself if there was any powder left at loading its contaminated so bad I'd think a match directly held against the cylinder face wouldn't ignite. I'm tempted to do something, maybe stupid? I'll put a tiny amount of powder down then smear T/C lube over it and see if a torch will lite it, I think not