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Has my frizzen given up the ghost?

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TommyKid

36 Cal.
Joined
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How can I tell if my frizzen is shot? This is a used rifle, so I can't do a before and after comparison. It's also my first flintlock. The frizzen has wear marks in the metal, itself. There isn't much spark at all, but I'm not sure how much there is supossed to be, really. When frizzens are shot is it time for a new one or can they be "reconditioned"?
Thanks,
Tom
 
The face can be touched up on a grinder and then it can be re-hardened by case hardening or through-hardening if it is made of high carbon steel.
 
While it might be a frizzen problem, IIWM I'd try a new, good, well adjusted flint and assess how well my piece sparked then. What rifle are we diagnosing BTW? GrampaJ in NC
 
TommyKid said:
How can I tell if my frizzen is shot? This is a used rifle, so I can't do a before and after comparison. It's also my first flintlock. The frizzen has wear marks in the metal, itself. There isn't much spark at all, but I'm not sure how much there is supossed to be, really. When frizzens are shot is it time for a new one or can they be "reconditioned"?
Thanks,
Tom

First of all, what type of scrapes do you have on the frizzen? Do they go up and down or across? If they go across, your frizzen is too soft. If they go up and down, you either have a flint that needs to be sharpened or you may have a main spring that is too weak or the main spring/frizzen spring combo do not match.

What type of flint are you using, cut or knapped? Cut flints do not work well in some cases.

You should be throwing a shower of sparks that are yellow in color which would indicate your frizzen is properly hardened. To check, go into a dark room and test it with an unloaded rifle unless your mother in law is presenting too good a target. If the sparks look red, it is too soft. In that case, it does need to be case hardened. If you need assistance on that, there are many people who can help guide you through it.
 
harve202 said:
While it might be a frizzen problem, IIWM I'd try a new, good, well adjusted flint and assess how well my piece sparked then. What rifle are we diagnosing BTW? GrampaJ in NC

It's a Navy Arms Harpers Ferry 1803. I have some English flints on the way from Track of The Wolf.
 
flintlock62 said:
TommyKid said:
How can I tell if my frizzen is shot? This is a used rifle, so I can't do a before and after comparison. It's also my first flintlock. The frizzen has wear marks in the metal, itself. There isn't much spark at all, but I'm not sure how much there is supossed to be, really. When frizzens are shot is it time for a new one or can they be "reconditioned"?
Thanks,
Tom

First of all, what type of scrapes do you have on the frizzen? Do they go up and down or across? If they go across, your frizzen is too soft. If they go up and down, you either have a flint that needs to be sharpened or you may have a main spring that is too weak or the main spring/frizzen spring combo do not match.

What type of flint are you using, cut or knapped? Cut flints do not work well in some cases.

You should be throwing a shower of sparks that are yellow in color which would indicate your frizzen is properly hardened. To check, go into a dark room and test it with an unloaded rifle unless your mother in law is presenting too good a target. If the sparks look red, it is too soft. In that case, it does need to be case hardened. If you need assistance on that, there are many people who can help guide you through it.

The scrapes go up and down. I have no idea if the flint is cut or napped, to be honest. The sparks I see are yellow, but it's far from a shower. Mother-in-law is already 6 feet under...and no, I didn't do it :wink: How does one go about sharpening the flint? Wet stone..file..grinder? Sorry, this is all new territory for me.
Tom
 
Well, I wouldn't get to excited yet if it is not a shower of sparks. As long as the sparks it always gives, lights the powder, that is the important part. I have one lock that I consider my very best lock and it doesn't throw a shower of sparks, actually it is just a few good sparks, that land as they should in the pan. But it just keeps shooting and shooting and shooting and........
 
TommyKid said:
flintlock62 said:
TommyKid said:
How can I tell if my frizzen is shot? This is a used rifle, so I can't do a before and after comparison. It's also my first flintlock. The frizzen has wear marks in the metal, itself. There isn't much spark at all, but I'm not sure how much there is supossed to be, really. When frizzens are shot is it time for a new one or can they be "reconditioned"?
Thanks,
Tom

First of all, what type of scrapes do you have on the frizzen? Do they go up and down or across? If they go across, your frizzen is too soft. If they go up and down, you either have a flint that needs to be sharpened or you may have a main spring that is too weak or the main spring/frizzen spring combo do not match.

What type of flint are you using, cut or knapped? Cut flints do not work well in some cases.

You should be throwing a shower of sparks that are yellow in color which would indicate your frizzen is properly hardened. To check, go into a dark room and test it with an unloaded rifle unless your mother in law is presenting too good a target. If the sparks look red, it is too soft. In that case, it does need to be case hardened. If you need assistance on that, there are many people who can help guide you through it.

The scrapes go up and down. I have no idea if the flint is cut or napped, to be honest. The sparks I see are yellow, but it's far from a shower. Mother-in-law is already 6 feet under...and no, I didn't do it :wink: How does one go about sharpening the flint? Wet stone..file..grinder? Sorry, this is all new territory for me.
Tom

The scrapes going up and down is a good sign. If after you get a sharp edge on the flint and it still will not spark too well, the main spring is most likely too weak and needs to be tempered.

Note too, that positioning the flint is critical to good sparks. It must be paralell to the frizzen and the point should be no more than half way up the frizzen. Some rifles fire better with the flint bevel down and others shoot better with the bevel up.

There are a few ways to sharpen a knapped flint (one that looks hand made). Machine cut flints are a lot more difficult to put a new edge on. Since I have never used a machine cut flint, am not much help here.

All flints can be sharpened while in the cock, by a process of chipping, or knapping. Basic tools can accomplish this in slightly different ways.

Brass tools should be used to prevent sparks! However, steel can be used if the rifle is unloaded and there is not powder in the pan. I hope I do not have to repeat that!

1. The fine point of a deer antler tine can be used for 'pressure flaking'. The tine is placed on the thin or leading edge of the flint, set at an angle not quite straight up, tilted a bit forward, toward the frizzen, and a sudden sharp push given. This will chip off tiny flakes of flint from the under surface of the cutting edge, leaving it sharp. This is the method I eventually learned and always use and is very quick.

2. A short small diameter brass rod can be filed to form a shoulder near the end. This shoulder is placed on the flint edge, the rod held at the same angle as before, and light taps given to the top end of the rod. The result is the same as with the tine.

3. A small brass hammer can be used to peck the edge of the flint, chipping it away.

4. The back of the patch knife blade can be used, but you have to be very carefull doing this, so I really do not recommend it, but it is an option.

5. You can also use the brass tip of your short starter with a little practice.

6. The frizzen can be closed until it touches the top of the flint edge and a sharp downward pressure applied. This is called 'hammering the flint', and works well on some locks, but takes practice. It also means repositioning the flint forward in the jaws for it to happen. I would use this only as a last resort.
 
TommyKid said:
How does one go about sharpening the flint? Wet stone..file..grinder? Sorry, this is all new territory for me.
Tom
That depends on what you have for a "flint".

A real flint looks very much like a piece of rock, which it is.
There are also some modern things that look somewhat like ceramic.

The ceramic looking things must be sharpened with a diamond impregnated grinding wheel.

The true flints are much easier to sharpen.
The sharply beveled edge that hits the frizzen was formed by chipping away excess rock so it can be resharpened by doing the same thing.

The way I do this is I locate the flint in the cocks jaws with the tapered side up (often called bevel up).
I then use a little piece of steel that I've cut a small shoulder on to chip away the old edge.

Another way to do the same thing:
By placing the end of a screw driver just about where its tip is going to fall over the edge of the flints point, hold it there and lightly tap the screwdriver with a small hammer or even a pair of pliers. The end of the screw driver will chip away a small piece of rock.
What remains will be a razor sharp edge on the flint. Continue to do this across the full cutting edge of the flint.
There will be some small areas that are uneven.
These tiny areas can also be chipped away using the same process or if they are very small you can just leave them.
The first time the flint strikes the frizzen the uneven points will break off by themselves (leaving a sharp edge behind.

As for frinkeling with your frizzen, I would leave it alone until you are positive you have a problem.
If you can't wait that long, lightly file across the face of the frizzen. The frizzen should be about as hard as a file so it shouldn't cut hardly anything. Maybe it will leave some light scratches but it shouldn't actually cut into the frizzen.
 
Forget the bevel up, the flint is knapped with downward pressure to chip away at the underside of the flint. Think of a razor blade. It is only sharpened on one side and a flint can be every bit as sharp as a razor. I have shaved hair off my arm with a flint. It depends on whether the flint is already "bevel up or bevel down" in the jaws.
 
Believe these guys when they say they are razor sharp. Otherwise you can find out the hard way, like I did!
 
The repro 1803's are notorious for poor sparking. Their geometry is atrocious, and they can be real flint eaters, and are very sensitive to spring power. I bought one in the late seventies that did not spark too well. I ended up half soling the frizzen with a thin plate of file steel. This helped greatly, but flints have just never lasted long in this lock. The cock makes the flint strike at too blunt of an angle, instead of making a nice clean scraping motion. I don't think there is a lot you can do about it, except keep sharp flints in it.
 
I made a saw cut on one of the braces of the
throat and heated the back of the cock and bent
the lower jaw forward then silver soldered the
joint. That made a sharper angle of attack to the
flint and it sparked perfect from then on. This I
have done to four Harpers locks and they all work
with no more "bashing"....
 
wulf said:
I made a saw cut on one of the braces of the
throat and heated the back of the cock and bent
the lower jaw forward then silver soldered the
joint. That made a sharper angle of attack to the
flint and it sparked perfect from then on. This I
have done to four Harpers locks and they all work
with no more "bashing"....

How about I send you my lock and you can say you've done 5? :wink:
 
Wick Ellerbe said:
The repro 1803's are notorious for poor sparking. Their geometry is atrocious, and they can be real flint eaters, and are very sensitive to spring power. I bought one in the late seventies that did not spark too well. I ended up half soling the frizzen with a thin plate of file steel. This helped greatly, but flints have just never lasted long in this lock. The cock makes the flint strike at too blunt of an angle, instead of making a nice clean scraping motion. I don't think there is a lot you can do about it, except keep sharp flints in it.

Wonderful. Looks like I picked a winner for my first flintlock
 
Enjoy the experience - You will figure out all kinds of things with a tempermental lock that you wouldn't with one that wasn't tempermental, :thumbsup:
 
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