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hangfire from load kept in gun for 2 days

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buttonbuck

50 Cal.
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
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was wondering? did some hunting this weekend. Loaded the gun on Thrusday, evening hunted. skipped friday because of storm dammage. Hunted Saturday PM shot a buck with it on Saturday the shot was not a 2 or 3 second hangfire but seemed delayed a bit. I held tight and harvested the deer with a Neck and heart lung shot. Thank God, but started wiht a broadside heart lung shot. I use 85 grains of clean shot with a wonderwad over a remington 400 grain 54 cal bullet used a remington #11 cap and a regular tc nipple. The weather was 35 degrees no real humidity. I think i will switch a hot shot nipple and discharged the gun at the end of the day, target practice from the stand.
 
Buttonbuck,
congratulations on your harvest. Good shot discipline.
I have a TC Hawken .50. Over Thanksgiving I hunted Thur, Fri, and Sat A.M., with Thur being damp and drizzly. I was worried about reliability of ignition (I use pyrodex) so I made sure the nipple was clear and I added a few grains of pyro under the nipple. THere was no problem when I discharged it Sat. AM (at a target).
Being compulsive about a clean channel and nipple has always worked for me. The suggestion of adding a few grains under the nipple (from MLF of course) is insurance.
bramble
 
Congratulations on your kill. Way to "hang in there". I hunt on the wet side of Warshington, and the only misfires or hangfires I have experienced have been with BP substitutes. I've had real good luck with the real stuff.
 
I haven't used Clean Shot, but I wouldn't expect a hangfire with either Pyro or BP after two days in the conditions you describe. The only time I've encountered anything similar was with a gun I had taken out of storage and not thoroughly cleaned the breech. I suspect there was an oil residue in there. Now I'm careful to clean the breech with alcohol on a swab that really gets down into it from the bore, then via the fire channel, cleaning with alcohol and dry patches both through the nipple hole and the cleanout.
 
Attaboy on the buck. I bet when he showed up life went into slow motion, and you didn't have a hangfire, just felt one.
The same storm ripped through SW Ohio Friday with 37 MPH winds gusting more than 50 MPH. I stopped by the deer check-in station about noon, and not a single deer had been taken that day (big surprise).
 
When you drop yer powder down the barrel, whack the opposite side of the nipple drum a couple times with palm of hand, that'll knock some grains in flash channel for fast ignition. Then load yer slug or PRB.
Ya get BOOM then, not Ka-boom. :)
 
I shot a cap and wiped the bore with a lubed prb patch but neglected not the channel. Good idea to use alcohol on the channel and I had thought about removing the nipple and adding a few grains under the nipple I have done that in the past. I have never had issues with clean shot (american pioneer now) I had made the switch to 3f from 2 f. the powder is a few years old. When I compared the nipples between the stock tc and the hot shot from uncle mikes the hole is noticibly larger in the U.M. hotshot I will say the bullet traveled through much bone and innards I really am sold on using the wonder wads it really tightened up my groups and seems to burn the powder better much less smoke than before shooting 100 gr of 2f with out the wonder wad. I filled the base of the hollow bullet with bore butter I wonder if that with the wad saturated some of the powder?
 
Two things come to mind for me... One is the black powder substitute you were using. I know guys who swear by the stuff, and just as many who swear at it. Could be the propellant. Second, when you popped the cap to clear the flash channel and then swabbed the bore with a lubed patch, some of the lube could have been pushed back in the flash channel. When I was hunting, I always popped two caps and a squib load just to make sure, and then loaded as usual. If I felt the need to swab the bore after that, it was with the load in it.

Some may disagree, but it worked for me every time.

Good luck!
 
buttonbuck said:
I filled the base of the hollow bullet with bore butter I wonder if that with the wad saturated some of the powder?
No, borebutter doesn't harm[url] powder...in[/url] particular prelubed bore buttons (Wonderwads) are made for that very purpose...been using them for 15+ years myself...I missed a 6 pointer years ago due to a hang fire, and ever since then my personal opinion has been:

1) A load left in any rifle overnight under any conditions cannot be trusted to be as 100% reliable as a perfectly fresh load in a clean dry bore just before the hunt;

2) Switching to real black powder provides a far greater degree of ignition reliability and consistency than BP substitute powders.

After all the time, money, planning, and finally getting a deer, turkey, etc, in my sights I'm not about to squander that rare opportunity just to avoid 2 minutes of work or save 20 cents of powder/patch/ball...I pull my loads after every hunt and load fresh each time...save the wads/patches/balls for plinking at the range.
 
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I have to agree with Roundball on this. It doesn't really make much sense to go to the time and trouble to get a license and permit, scout territory, arrange the time off work, and from other family obligations to go deer hunging, and then worry about whether a load is going to fire or not because I was too lazy to clean the gun the night before. While it generally does not happen, I have been on the range with men using Pyrodex, albeit years ago, when they had hang fires, and slow fires. Even from a rest, at 50 yds, their shots were all over the place. The same gun and same shooter stood off-hand and shot nice 3 inch groups using Black Powder! For that reason, I have never bothered to try substitutes in my guns. I do have to admit that Goex has me interested in trying their Pinnacle powder, just to see how it does in my flintlocks, but I am not interested, and cannot recommend any of the other subs. They cost way too much, first of all, and for all the trouble you have igniting them, and then have to use both solvents and soap and water to clean them out, properly, I can't see why anyone would bother with them. I tire of hearing people complain that they can't buy BP at their corner grocery store, because all that tells me, about the shooter, is he does not practice during the year, takes the gun out the week before deer season, and then goes looking for his supplies, and finds out he's low on powder, or out. WE ARE IN A WAR. During WWII, ration cards were issued and you couldn't buy a lot of things. None of that has happened. But, for better or worse, we have greater restrictions of BP, and we have to learn to live with them. Since there are several dealers who ship BP in small lots at more than reasonable prices, there is no excuse for not ordering at least 4-5 lbs. at a time and having it shipped to your door. And, join a local BP club. If you don't know where they are, contact the NMLRA and ask. There are charter clubs in all the states, and many clubs who are not affiliated. The NRA can also point you to nearest gun clubs, and they in turn will identify members who shoot black powder. YOU ARE NOT ALONE ! Make friends with other shooters, and buy powder together to split the HAZMAT fee among all. When buying BP in a case lot gets it delivered to your door for less than $12 per pound, including fees, and the retail price on some of the substitutes is over $25.00 a pound, I don't see much of a hard decision to make.

And, Like Roundball, I dump the load at the end of the day, an clean the gun thoroughly so its ready for a fresh load the next morning. Yes, it takes a few minutes. But it allows me the secure knowledge that the gun is functioning properly, when I put it in its case for the night, and I don't have to worry about something needing oil, or a screw coming loose, or the need for another flint, or what powder to use. In the morning, I dry the oil from the barrel and vent. When I used to hunt with a Percussion rifle, I used alcohol to clean and dry the flash channel and nipple, too. It took only minutes, and because I did it every time, it went quickly and efficiently from practice.

The first time I hunted out my own house, my wife asked me why I was cleaning the gun in the morning as I had cleaned and oiled it before going to bed the night before. I explained that I was getting the oil out that I put in the night before, and why. She shook her head, and waived good-bye.When I arrived home later with my deer, she again asked me about the cleaning and I explained why I was fighting rust at night, but wanted a dry barrel when I loaded it. That made sense to her.
 
Congrats on your buck! As a former Cleanshot/ American Pioneer Powder user, I can relate to what happened. I now too use only real black powder. Cleanshot/A.P.P. right out of the can did give good ignition, and accuracy, ( In a percussion caplock) but with any lenghty exposure to humidity/moisture, it gave inconsistant accuracy, and unreliable ignition. I think its power level dropped, after exposure. I would no longer trust it hunting, especially on a foggy, or rainey day.
 
I used to load my rifle opening day and it stayed loaded until I shot at a deer. I have never had any real problems using Goex and Pyrodex, but have seen others have troubles. I now shoot, or pull the load if the weather is a little damp at all. I like to pick a target and shoot the load, and it makes me more sure of my load and rifle.
 
Clean Shot powder was a different formula then what APP is currently putting out. CS was known to have problems with shelf life and moisture, any moisture.

For anyone planning to use Pinnacle it's made by APP and is the same stuff. Goex contracted APP to package it for them.

If I'm planning to hunt the next day or couple of days I don't pull the load I put my rifle in it's case and leave it in the truck, never had a problem with either Pyrodex or BP. It's when you take them into a warm house then back out into the cold, that is when moisture problems could pop up.
 
Mike,

That is not correct. APP is no different than Clean Shot in its basic formulation on method of production.

The thing about hygroscopic behavior hinges on the use of "raw" ascorbic acid versus ascorbic acid that has been heat degraded. Or combinations of the two.

"Raw" ascorbic acid, as it is produced is not hygroscopic. But if you prepare a powder from straight "raw" ascorbic acid it is rather weak when it comes to ballistic strength.
If you heat degrade the ascorbic acid before or during the making of the powder the ballistic strength goes up but then it becomes hygroscopic. A point is reached in this where the ascorbic acid becomes deliquescent. Meaning it will pull enough moisture from the air to form a solution of itself in the water.

With ascorbic acid. When you start to heat degrade it and allow it to pick up moisture from the air it sets up a self-accelerating decomposition reaction. When this happens you get the rotten veggie odor and it no longer is reliable in the gun.

Making an ascorbic acid based powder that is strong enough in the gun while keeping an acceptable level of chemical stability is something of a juggling act.
 
Congratulations on the buck. :thumbsup: I also have been hunting here in Minnesota and with no luck. But having a great time in the woods.
I have a Investment Arms 54cal. and our season started the 25th of November. The weather has been cold here 0 to 20 above. I uncap the rifle each nite and put a piece of leather over the nipple with the hammer down. I have a plastic gun case on the 4 wheeler and is left in at nite in a cool garage. After it being loaded from a week last nite I thought I would fire the gun and clean. It fired just fine. Now in damp weather it gets cleaned each nite but the weather we had was just cold and I did not bring the rifle into a warm atmosphere. I use goex and #11 caps. I have taken the nipple out and placed a touch of fresh powder "A couple granulas" when I was press for time and it works great. I always snap a cap or two before loading for hunting to make sure it dry. After loading the rifle I put a lose patch in at the muzzle. It keeps snow and other unwanted thing out. I have used balloons.
I wonder how the pioneers survived in the wild. Did they unload and clean everyday? :hmm:
 
O weas told by a Goex rep. on the phone, that the current Pinnacle was reformulated to reduce its flashpoint to make it useable in flintlocks.
 
I always run a patch down the bore before I load my rifle. Then I run another down the bore and leave it in the bore with the ram rod while I pop couple caps. When I pull the ram rod and patch back out I look to see if the patch is burned. If it is I know the rifle is clear and will fire if I load it. This year I had my rifle loaded for seven days and when the deer did appear it went bang and down fell the deer. I leave the rifle in a case on the unheated portch during this time. I put black tape over the muzzle and leather over the nipple with the hammer down on the leather and nipple. Just my 2 cents worth hope it helps.
 
It seems rather ironic that a powder made with ascorbic acid would give folks so many headaches. :grin: :rotf:

(Ascorbic acid is sometimes called "Asprin".

zonie :)
 
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