Hang fire problems today with Prodex RS powder

[BrownBear]

Pyrodex is notorious for going bad in storage.

Actually that's backwards. Shockey's GLOP is awful, but Pyrodex is remarkably stable. I have some cans that have been opened for close to 20 years and they still perform fine, both ignition and over the chrono. The Shockey GLOP loses 30-40% of its velocity in the first 6 months after a jug is opened. That's chronograph results and not opinion.

We have to get well acquainted with the subs and problem solving up here due to our wet climate and the difficulty of shipping Goex or any other real black.

The "trick" with Pyrodex is kinda 2-fold. Numero Uno is going with a slightly smaller cleaning jag so a damp patch goes easily down the bore, then binds a little when you pull the rod back out. This drags the fouling back up and out of the bore rather than shoving it down into the breech.

Numero Dos is to swab every 3 to 6 shots, depending on the gun.

Numero Tres is to pull the nipple periodically and clear the flame channel with a pipe cleaner- varies with the gun, but I try to do it no less often than every 10 shots, with some guns demanding 5.

Numero Quatro is to pour the powder, then tip the rifle about 45 degrees with the lock on the lower side, then slap the stock a couple of times on the opposite side of the lock to make sure the powder settles into the flame channel before you seat the ball.

There's almost a Numbero Cinco- You can increase the time between swabbing and eliminate the lock slapping by going to Pyrodex P.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know if Pyrodex goes bad with time. But, my experience is it starts out bad. :shocked2:
Hate to say that. I met Dan Pawlak, the inventor, and he was one of the finest people I have ever had the privlige of meeting.
However, when I was writing product reviews a pre-market can was sent to me to test. I loaded my Ruger Old Army with it and no way, no how could I get ignition. Different nipples, different caps, lota cussing, etc. Never got an ignition. I didn't try in rifles because I was sure I would end up pulling the balls. I poured remainder in garden, wrote my short review and have never tried again. IMHO, only good thing to come from the invention of Pyrodex was the follow-up design of the Hot Shot nipple, supposedly, to help with ignition.

 

[azmntman]

very odd. My ROA loves it? P grade OR RS it shoots it fine. I use goex now though and likes it as well or better.

 

[Zonie]

Interesting and may explain your feelings about Pyrodex.

The fact that you were testing "a pre-market can" tells me that there was a real good chance of the powder not being suitable for use.
Often, pre-market things need improvement and it doesn't take long before negative comments are made.

When this happens the company will often change things to eliminate the problems before they actually put the final product out on the market for sale to the public.

I've shot Pyrodex for years and aside from a few times where there was a noticeable delay of less than 1/2 of a second, I've had no problems with it.

I've learned that these little delays can easily be overcome by using Magnum or RWS 1075 caps.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I understand those factors but could test, and form opinions, only on what they sent. When I write reviews they are as objective and disspasionite as a surgeons scalpel. Unlike many of my rants here. :wink:

 

[Zonie]

The point I was trying to make is you were testing a pre-production product and basing your dislike of the production product on that.

I suggest the next time you have nothing to do and some extra dollars in your pocket, you buy a brand new bottle of Pyrodex P. (That's the equivalent of 3Fg black powder).

Take it to a range with one of your percussion guns and shoot it. You may change your opinion.

 

[ryoung14]

I've shot Pyrodex for years and aside from a few times where there was a noticeable delay of less than 1/2 of a second, I've had no problems with it.

I've learned that these little delays can easily be overcome by using Magnum or RWS 1075 caps.

Same here.

 

[Chowmif16]

I don't mean to further ignite the debate between Pyrodex and real BP, but here is what I have found, and my solution.
I have had to move several times for work, and each time have struggled to find real BP, resulting in occasionally using Pyrodex to satiate my need for muzzleblasting. Nearly every time, I've had trouble with substitutes, in several different guns. The most poignant example was shooting ML skeet as a new member of a club. Couldn't hit a thing to save my life. Finally, an old hand asked me if he could watch me load because my gun didn't sound right. After he was satisfied that I knew what I was doing, he asked me what powder I was using.... Aha! He gave me some real black and my score massively improved. More importantly, I could now hear that with the Pyrodex, my previous shots were slight hangfires. Hadn't noticed it until I had real BP.
Since then, I have come to this conclusion. I don't want to go through a whole bunch of effort with duplex loads or magnum caps and hotshot nipples (and I shoot a lot of flintlock). I want the real thing because it works and, emotionally, it's authentic.
The solution to my problem was buying real BP online in 25 pound increments, shipped To my door. It's a big investment up front, but buying in bulk solved all those problems and wasn't as expensive as I thought it would be.
I guess I'm a BP snob to some extent, but I've had poor luck with substitutes and feel like if I'm gonna shoot BP, then go all in and shoot the real stuff.
My apologies to Pyrodex fans, it just doesn't work for me.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The point I was trying to make is you were testing a pre-production product and basing your dislike of the production product on that.

I suggest the next time you have nothing to do and some extra dollars in your pocket, you buy a brand new bottle of Pyrodex P. (That's the equivalent of 3Fg black powder).

Take it to a range with one of your percussion guns and shoot it. You may change your opinion.

Isn't that sorta like sinnin' on Sunday?

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

My opinion on Pyrodex is after shooting in TC Renegade 54 and Lyman GPR 54 I got about same results....slower ignition than Goex BP. I am VERY trigger speed sensitive and if it isn't perfectly tuned I feel it and I can tell ignition difference in Hodgon Pyrodex and Goex BP. Now I tried the other Hodgon product called 777 and I honestly cannot tell any difference in ignition between 777 and Goex BP. I tried to like the Pyrodex as it is easy to get, but I gave rest away. That has been my experience.
If I cannot obtain Goex BP I would not hesitate to buy the 777 powder made by Hodgon.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Shockey product is terrible....yes after six months throw it away...big clumps and no power. Besides I like smoke....lol

 

[John W Hughes]

This has been a very interesting thread. For the record I do use real black powder. But I was trying to get rid of what I had.

I have to order it online because where I live NO one carries it. I will try 777 in the future IF I can't get the real thing anymore.

Thanks again for all of the replies!

 

[mooman76]

I have always found this puzzling. I have about a dozen ML guns and have used Pyrodex (some is 20+ years old)in all of them with zero problems. I am not doubting peoples words on the problems they are having, but have to think there is a logical reason why some are having problems and some are not.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have always found this puzzling. I have about a dozen ML guns and have used Pyrodex (some is 20+ years old)in all of them with zero problems. I am not doubting peoples words on the problems they are having, but have to think there is a logical reason why some are having problems and some are not.

Simple!
It's like someone who drives a car for 20 years and they think they know everything about driving. Then one day they try to drive a car with a manual transmission and have nothing but problems. :haha:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Shockey product is terrible....yes after six months throw it away...big clumps and no power. Besides I like smoke....lol

Gee, if so terrible how does he make those mile long shots on windy day from one mountain to the other? :shocked2: :rotf:

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Like I said it clumps up and loses power after not that long either. The day I bought it was ok, then didn't shoot it for several months and when I opened the canister it was clumped and pretty much useless. Had to throw it away....my personal experience.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

The Hodgon 777 is a good product, I have shot it after several years and no difference at all. I gave it to my daughter and I only use black powder and Goex is brand. It goes off same everytime as long as everything is right.