Had the 45 out today, got a question

[rsieber]

Took it to the local shooting range with my 11 year old, my 8 year old and my 13 year old nephew. None have ever shot a muzzleoader and the 8 year old has only ever shot a 22. My 13 year old nephew didn't much care for it. My 11 year old loved it and rat holed his first shot. My 8 year old didn't like it his first shot but wanted to shoot it again.I was using 60 grains of 3f.

Mostly it shot as expected but I did have a couple non fires. It seems like the flint doesn't ride the whole way down the frizzen, stops near the end and sets the flashpan off but doesn't light off the powder charge. I thought the frizzen should be pushed the whole way open. If i took my pick and pushed a small amount into the touch hole it would go off easier. What can i do to correct this?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Bill: Your flint's edge is hitting too low on the face of the frizzen. It needs to hit 2/3 UP from the bottom of the face of the frizzen, where the Heel of the frizzen turns a right angle to form the FOOT of the frizzen, which covers the flash pan.

The flint should scrape at a downward angle, measured at the Point of Impact of the edge on the frizzen, at 60 degrees to the face. The frizzen should then pop open when the edge is about 1/3 up from the bottom, clearing the frizzen out of the so that sparks are thrown down into the flash powder. You probably need to raise that font up in the jaws of the cock, but putting a piece of thick leather under the flint, to get it to strike the frizzen in the right place.

You also must make sure that the cam, on the bottom of the frizzen spring, is highly polished to reduce friction, as it rubs against the frizzen spring. The pivot pin and the two surfaces that rub together, the cam, and the top arm of the V-spring need to be lubed, to reduce friction further. Many of these locks are designed by people who believe that the frizzen spring MUST apply a lot of tension to help the flint cut steel when it strikes the frizzen. This is not only wrong, it eats up expensive flints, and delays ignition, as you have described. Sometimes a lock need that cam to be reduced in size to reduce the amount of tension on the frizzen, so that it opens easily.

The spring's only JOB is to keep the frizzen closed when the muzzle is pointed at the ground. Any tension MORE than that( about 1/5-2 lbs. of force applied to the top of the frizzen to open it)simply screws up the timing, and eats flints.

You may be able to afford expensive flints. You will be continually frustrated and upset if that timing remains poor, and the fails to fire.

 

[MSW]

I agree with Paul. You need to get some emery cloth or wet/dry sandpaper (in successive grits from about three hundred to eight hundred or finer) and polish the surfaces between the frizzen spring and the frizzen so that they as as smooth as you can make them, then use a goo lube (i like heavy oil, but everyone has their own special goo which works for them).

Tinker with the positioning of the flint in the jaws of the cock until the there is about a sixteenth of an inch between the edge of the flint and the face of the frizzen when the piece is at half cock. (Needless to say, make sure that you're not loaded when you make these adjustments!) The flint should hit the frizzen square at about a 60 to 65 degree angle, about two thirds of the way up from the bottom, and the frizzen must pop open as the piece fires. Otherwise, you get no spark in the pan and the ever- unpopular failure to fire.

if you are getting 'flash in the pan' but the main charge does not ignite, you should try (first) picking the touch hole and make sure that nothing is blocking the path of the fire in the pan as it ignites the main charge. if this doesn't work, you may want to consider replacing the vent liner, or enlarging the touch hole, but these are steps which can't be done willy nilly.

I realize that flintlocks can be exceptionally frustrating, but once you get your up and running, it will be a tremendous source of fun. (besides, then you will be truly kewl in the eyes of a little kid: and you will teach them that you don't always get instant gratification, that even grown- ups have to go through the learning curve, and persistence will get you pretty far in life, but i pontificate.)

keep tinkering with it, and then make good smoke!

 

[jethro224]

I think Paul is on the right track when he said to lube the pivot of the frizzen. If that screw is not oiled just a little it can get stiff and won't fly open right. Not a lot of oil, just enough.

Make sure there is not a crud cake down on the breech face. Make sure the touch hole is clean. Make sure the bore and breech are clean and dry. And make sure you aren't using too wet of a patch to swab between shots.
It should go off every time the pan flashes if all of those things are right.

 

[rsieber]

The flint seems to hit about where it's supposed to. I'm thinking the too stiff frizzen is it. It takes a little bit of effort to open it. I got a buffing wheel on a grinder left over from the days i used to polish a bunch of aluminum, so I can use that to polish the contact points. I'll give that a shot. Thanks!

 

[longcruise]

Also, for kids that age you should reduce that load to 25 or 30 grains. Sixty is going to be pushing the comfort zone for kids of that age.

 

[rsieber]

The 11 year old didn't mind the recoil. His Marlin 336 in 35 Rem kicks more. Then again he's shot 3" 12 gauge too so anything less than that he's ok with. The younger one, yep you're right, I'll have to lower it.

Ok, polished the spring and the cam on the frizzen. I took some tension off the spring also and cleaned everything up. The flint I had in there was awful short so I put another one I had in. It seems to be hitting just a bit higher than 1/2 way up the frizzen so now perhaps get some leather and bring it up more(?). The frizzen is sloppy when it's mounted so I cut some spacers out of shim stock so it didn't have as much side to side play. It really throws the sparks now and every shot the frizzen is back the whole way.I wasn't cleaning it between shots, we shot like 8 or 9 out of it today. I'm hoping to get out tomorow and shoot it some more. Need to shoot in my deer rifle anyways.

 

[ericb]

I was going to ask if the Flint was short. If the Flint is too short, even though it may be hitting in the right spot, it may not be pushing the Frizzen far enough forward to put the cam over center on the Frizzen Spring, thus making it want to stay in the closed position.

I think you're gonna be fine...

Eric

 

[ODG34]

I also agree with Paul. I had terrible flint life with my L&R. I polished some off of the frizen cam. I also put more of an angle with a flat on the back side just past the apex of the lobe so that the frizen snaps open more quickly at the time the flint just reached the bottom of the frizen. This mad dramatic improvement in flint life and reliability.