Great Plains Max load?

[Kentuckywindage]

Does anyone know what the max load on a lyman GPR is? Its a .54cal slow twist flinter.

Seems to do great with 110 grains FFg Goex.

 

[omgb]

It will take more than that curved butt plate will allow you to shoot. I would think that 120 grns. of 2F would be at the upper limit of safety and effeciency. One might get a load as heavy as 180 grains in it but to what gain? Most will just be blown out of the barrel. I would not use 3F at more than 90 grns. I don't know for sure but it seems pressure would start to get out of hand.

The real key is to find a load that shoots accurately and stick with it. The killing difference between 85 grains of 2F and 110 grains of 2F when using a round ball is really negligable. Shot placement is far more important.

 

[jtmattison]

With roundball the max is 120 grains of 2f, 100 grains of 3f. With conical bullets the max is 110 grains of 2f, 90 grains of 3f. This is per their manual.

HD

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Accuracy is the best with 110 grains FFg Goex. I thought the butt plate would hurt too, but this rifle is balanced great and i barely feel the recoil on my skinny 160 lb frame. Its just a nice solid thump and the rifle doesnt jump out of control.

Thanks for the info guys, Mine didnt come with the manual.

I'll have to give that 120 grain charge a try just to see how it does just for fun.

 

[Swampman]

I'd try FFF. That's all I use no matter the caliber.

 

[Rocky Johnson]

I like 80gr. of 3f swiss,put a .530 pbr through a buck at 80 yrs. Do I need more??
But the fun of shooting black powder is seeing what works,just be carefull,ware your shooting glasses & ear muffs. :wink: Rocky

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hey, Why don't you just pour in 250 or more grains of powder to see" How it feels"??? :haha:

Or Try using Smokeless powder in that, for even more of a " kick"??? Hey, you're a BIG MAN- You can take it!! ( I am kidding. DO NOT use smokeless powder in any black powder gun.)

I don't even understand why you are even interested in what the maximum load the manufacturer suggests, as it doesn't seem to be what you are really interested in, and that is seeing how much of a cannon you can hold on to! :hmm:

110 grains in that gun is NOT a sensible load.

A .54 Cal. 32 inch barrel can efficiently burn just under 90 grain. That is per the Charles Davenport Formula at 11.5 grains per Cubic Inch of bore. Most hunters are shooting 80 grains, because its not only the most accurate, but it puts a PRB all the way through both sides of a deer out to 100 yards and beyond. Just how much more DEAD does anyone else NEED in a rifle????

Guys like you are "Meat and Potato" guys: You aren't satisfied with a load unless it both kills the " Meat ", and also digs up the potatoes in the ground behind the animal! While you are having " FUN???" stuffing more powder in your gun, you are putting other shooters who might be near you in danger, not to mention yourself.


You say you are only 160 lbs. Don't kid yourself. There are a lot of us who have fired that exact same gun using the loads we speak about here, and we know darn well how it feels to take the recoil, particularly with that steel curved buttplate.

If you want to enjoy shooting a .54 rifle, trying using a light load of 55-60 grains of FFFg powder for paper targets out to 50 yards. The 80 grain charge is for hunting, and 100 yard targets. For short work, plinking, and just doing a lot of shooting, so you get used to the weight, balance, trigger pull, and sights, you can reduce the charge to 40 grains and do fine out at 25 yard targets.

If you look Lyman up on their website, they either show the manual, or you can get one sent to you.

Lyman makes a quality gun for a good price. But no manufacturer makes a gun that is fool-proof. And guns that can take some abuse can't take abuse for very long before things start coming loose. On percussion guns, the nipples burn out, sending the hammer back in recoil, and flying shards of copper into the shooter's face and arms. Or, sometimes, nipples just blow out of the gun altogether. Because this damages the threads, you have to redrill and rethread the bolster for a larger size nipple, and use the larger size from them on. That will decrease the value of the gun on resale, because anyone who goes to buy it will know that the only way these things happen is by you have been abused the gun. :hmm:

We have been reading about some idiot who blew up a Commericially made rifle recently when he loaded Smokeless powder in his gun, and then claimed that he was trying to Pull the load when it exploded. No explanation on how that was possible, if he removed the cap from the nipple, per normal safety procedures, but then, loading smokeless powder into a gun that says " BLACK POWDER ONLY " on the barrel isn't exactly following safety rules. After all, the smokeless powder "Looked" black to him???? It has to be the manufacturer's " fault " that a neon sign was not attached to the gun when shipped telling him that BLACK POWDER does not refer to color, but to a particular type of powder. And, or course, LYMAN will be responsible for anything you do with your gun because it didn't CHAIN a copy of its owner's manual to the gun on shipping it. Right? :cursing: :bull: :bull: :bull:

 

[irataylor]

My 100 yard target load I found to be most accurate is 80-90 grs of 2f. I haven't tried 3f yet but plan to later this year. I agree with Paul on the 50 yard plinking load range also. I don't like to waste powder, too costly.

 

[Otter]

Does anyone know what the max load on a lyman GPR is? Its a .54cal slow twist flinter.

Seems to do great with 110 grains FFg Goex.

I really don't care what the MAX load is for my .54 GPR (or any ML I own, for that matter) as I KNOW from past experience that the MAX load will not yield the accuracy I want from my rifle. I hope you are asking just out of curiosity and not because that's is what you want to shoot. As Paul has alluded to, there is a thing called "the point of diminishing returns" which, simply put, means that somewhere along the line, you put more powder in than can be burned before the ball is out of the barrel. In my .54 GPR, I use 75 gr 3f Goex for hunting and 50 to 55 gr 3f Goex for target work. I once tried 90 gr 3f Goex in my .50 GPR because I was trying to hit a steel buffalo at nearly 600 yards and felt the extra powder was necessary. I came close to hitting it (elevation OK, windage wass off), but the hammer rebounded to half-cock and it about screwed me into the ground. I'm sure it was at, near or maybe over the max load for the rifle and it only took one time to make me realize max loads aren't what are needed for anything. Didn't need to even try with the .54 GPR.

Now that I'm done shaking my finger, here is what is in the Lyman Manual:

.54 caliber
.535" RB 120 grs 2Fg or 100 gr 3Fg
335 gr. Sabot 110 gr 2Fg or 90 gr 3Fg
450 gr. Maxi 110 gr 2Fg or 90 gr 3Fg

or go to http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Looking at my deer creek manual right now: For example, To completely burn 110 grains of powder (by weight), you must have a minimum length of 32" barrel.

I was just curious to what the max load for the lyman was with PRB. Right now the rifle seems to do best with 110 grains goex. Have a bunch of powder tubes loaded and 2 different patches to try out later today. Will let you all know how it does.

It did a 2" group @ 71 yards yesterday which is ok but my traditions will do that at 100 yards.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Well today i was able to shrink the 110 grain load down to 1 1/2 3 shot group @ 71 yards. This rifle is unreliable and hangfires/doesnt fire. I put on a new flint before i went out, first shot was perfect, next shot it took 3 strikes it ignite the 4f and then there was a huge hangfire even with the small amount of powder i use. Next shot, 4 strikes and still nothing, knap the flint a little, 2 more strikes and it goes off. Went through 3 flints today just to get 9 shots. I think lyman gave me a junk frizzen.

I shot 3 shots with 120 grains ffg goex and a home cast 224g RB and that had a very nice punch to it. Great thing is, i dont feel any pain and my last shot of the day went off perfectly and nicked the bulls eye.

Rifle seems to prefer .015 patches over the .018 pillow ticking. Its really to early to say right now with all the problems ive been having with the rifle going off.
I ordered an RMC vent hole liner lastnight so hopefully that will help. Now im going to call Lyman and see how their customer service is and see if i can get a replace frizzen.

110 grains seems good and also puts me 1" high of the bulls eye which should be good for 100 yards. If not i'll bump the charge up a litte.

Any idea with this flint issue? I used Tom Fuller 3/4" flints and 3/4" Agate flints. Im looking to order French Amber flints but i honestly dont think the flints are my problem right now.

 

[Zoar]

FFFG GOEX as the load powder.

Are you getting good spark? If you are geting good spark and pan ignition but hang fires or no goes on the load then the issue is with the laod powder

When I tried FFFG Goex as pan powder and Triple Seven as load powder I got hangfires and some that did not go, except always got the pan powder to go.

I use agates on my Lyman. They work great for me.

If you are not getting good spark and if your pan powder is not always going maybe you do not have a secure flint. Did you wrap it with leather or lead or something?

When I use FFFG Goex as pan and load powder I get 100 fast ignition 100% of the time. No hangfires. Only 2-3% of the time does it NOT go and then it is always the pan that does NOT light off and that is always when I have to clean the flint or if the flint loosened up in the jaws.

No issues with my Lyman and FFFG Goex.

 

[omgb]

I found the key to good flint ignition (once one has a hard frizzen) is to keep the flint knapped to a keen edge and keep the frizzen clean and oil free. The hang fire is coming from a blocked vent hole or, oil in the back end of the barrel. Be sure to clean and dry the piece very carefully. Then load as usual. You might try less prime in the pan too. It only takes a small amount.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Put in a brand new razor sharp TF flint, 1,2 strikes were perfect. Every strike after that produced barely any sparks.

The FFg goex im using works perfect in my traditions flintlock, goes off instant. I also shoot 110 grains with that and no problems.

Should have kept that cva big bore i had

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are not getting sparks, and the flint edge does not visibly show steel bits clogging the edge- yes you can see them with the naked eye-- then its a frizzen hardness issue. Although, I am puzzled that you are getting sparks with the first firing of the new flint, but then don't get sparks.

Is the frizzen face smooth and flat, or does it now have horizontal gouges and ruts where the flint strikes the frizzen?

Do you tighten the cock screw down some more after 5 test " drops" of the cock onto the frizzen, to set the flint in whatever wrap you use?

If not, the indifferent performance of the flint may be due to the cock screw needing to be tightened again. This is especially true with leather wraps, but also applies to lead wraps. If that flint is not being held tight, you are not going to get good sparks.

Finally, measure the angle that the flint strikes the frizzen at, using a plastic protractor- available in most grocery stores where they sell school supplies. The angle should be 60 degrees, measure along the bottom of the flint or along the top of the BOTTOM JAW of the cock. The upper arm of the angle should be from the point of contact to the inside back portion of the frizzen.

If that angle is less than 60 degrees, the cock needs to be heated up and the jaw bent down to that degree, so that your flint scrapes the surface of the frizzen to create sparks, rather than gouges metal out. With a gooseneck shaped cock, this can be done by you with a propane torch, and some pliers, and a vise.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Frizzen face looks like my traditions. Gouges/ruts but nothing to bad or deep. I wipe the frizzen face/flint after each shot, use my vent pick before and after each shot. I wrap in leather but am going to flatten out a ball and wrap in lead the next time. I use lead on my traditions and i get a lot better sparks. I sent my traditions frizzen off to be reharded, i had been so long since i shot it that i forgot that i wrapped the flint in lead. I had it setup with leather and wasnt getting very good spark. Ah well.
Going back out with the great plains to try a few more shots with this new flint.

If you are not getting sparks, and the flint edge does not visibly show steel bits clogging the edge- yes you can see them with the naked eye-- then its a frizzen hardness issue. Although, I am puzzled that you are getting sparks with the first firing of the new flint, but then don't get sparks.

Is the frizzen face smooth and flat, or does it now have horizontal gouges and ruts where the flint strikes the frizzen?

Do you tighten the cock screw down some more after 5 test " drops" of the cock onto the frizzen, to set the flint in whatever wrap you use?

If not, the indifferent performance of the flint may be due to the cock screw needing to be tightened again. This is especially true with leather wraps, but also applies to lead wraps. If that flint is not being held tight, you are not going to get good sparks.

Finally, measure the angle that the flint strikes the frizzen at, using a plastic protractor- available in most grocery stores where they sell school supplies. The angle should be 60 degrees, measure along the bottom of the flint or along the top of the BOTTOM JAW of the cock. The upper arm of the angle should be from the point of contact to the inside back portion of the frizzen.

If that angle is less than 60 degrees, the cock needs to be heated up and the jaw bent down to that degree, so that your flint scrapes the surface of the frizzen to create sparks, rather than gouges metal out. With a gooseneck shaped cock, this can be done by you with a propane torch, and some pliers, and a vise.

 

[Old Charlie]

I have a GPR in cap and one in flint. Both are .54 cal. At 100 yds. I shoot 85 grains of 3f Goex in the cap gun. To get the same point of impact with the flinter I have to use 100 grains of 3f Goex.
Old Charlie

 

[Zoar]

In my experience if you get "great sparks" the first two tries, and then no sparks it is either---
1) Flint loosening in the jaws
or
2) Oil on some of your components that gets transferred to the Frizzen or the flint when you cycle it.

That has been my experience.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Cant possibly be oil. I dont oil my bores after cleaning. Have to give lyman a call either monday or tuesday. My day was ruined by my sisters '07 ford 500 tranny taking a dump after 6,800 miles. But lets not get me started on that half ass company :cursing:

 

[Dphar]

Does anyone know what the max load on a lyman GPR is? Its a .54cal slow twist flinter.

Seems to do great with 110 grains FFg Goex.

It is very unlikely that any increase in velocity will be realized past 110-120 gr of FFFG powder. Most 54s I have owned shot best with 90-100 grs of FFFg though one percussion required 120.
Once about about 1/2 ball weight of powder in most rifles the ability to actually gain significant velocity with a 10-20 gr increase in powder disappears. FFG in a 54 will significantly reduce velocity in most cases though many rifles shoot FFG well.
I have a 30" barreled .66 that produces little gain in velocity with more that 130-140 gr of FFG Swiss.
Going to a better powder like Swiss WILL increase velocity since its faster chemically and has better charcoal than GOEX.
But velocities past 1800 are really not needed. 300 fps increase in velocity at the muzzle will only translate to 100-120 fps at 100-110 yards. But the HV load will shoot much flatter.
So being that 1700-1800 fps give as flat a trajectory as is needed, excess velocity for velocities sake is just a waste of powder. It will not increase killing power. All else being equal the advantage of the 1800 fps load over a 1500 fps load is trajectory.

Dan