Full length Stock and accuracy

[Marinekayak]

One of the other threads on here got me thinking about shooting a good group with an odd flyer. It got me wondering about the effects of the full lengths stocks found on a lot of traditional rifles. I know with a full length wood "mannlicher" style stock found on "unmentionables, that barrels have a tendency to heat up twisting the wood and causing groups to shift. I am going to make some assumptions that the slow loading nature of loading a traditional ML, especially if you're wiping between shots, that the barrel would never get hot enough for this to be an issue. Maybe, if you were shooting a smoothbore and trying to shoot as rapid as possible you might get the barrel hot enough. I was just curious if anyone had noticed or had any experience with the thin full length wood stocks warping or twisting, affecting accuracy?
Or you sight in on a dry cool day and shoot again on a hot humid day, could the stock swell and twist changing point of impact?
Just some thoughts.

 

[user 36911]

Not sure but there's a bunch of full stock guns at Friendship shooting some pretty small groups and winning.

 

[ppg1949]

I could be wrong but the question of the unmentionable barrel heating up would be due to a more rapid firing sequence or rate of fire than a ML could achieve. I have never noticed anything concerning the accuracy of my full length stock Ky. rifle. But my shooting is slow even when compared to the rate of fire that would be averaged by the soldiers in the war between the states. Visually, I prefer the appearance of a full length stock.

 

[Coot]

On a well made traditional long rifle, the full length stock forward of the entry thimble is very thin & fragile. The barrel is much more holding the stock rather than the stock holding the barrel. On modern rifles, stocks tend to be shorter & heavier & many of the more accurate ones have bedded actions and free floating barrels to help avoid the stock trying to move (or restrict movement) of the barrel. The thin & delicate long rifle stock, combined with slower burning charges and a slower rate of fire resulting in less heat build up, hints that the extra length of stock wood (extending to the end of the barrel) should (IMHO) have very little effect on accuracy.

 

[hanshi]

Also the pin lugs that hold the stock and barrel together are usually "slotted" to allow for expansion/contraction of the stock.

 

[Marinekayak]

Thanks for everyones replies. It was more one of those "hmmmmm" campfire questions. I didn't think heat would be a factor but was curious. And i I have noticed when ML's are bedded it seems that most just bed the tang area.

 

[Ames]

Seems to me, anyway, you are shooting a barrel with sights mounted on it. The stock come along for the ride.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I have an unmentionable Mannlicher stocked rifle with a fairly skinny barrel and in a fairly major caliber. Upon acquisition I had very frustrating sessions at the range. I'd zero the scope after many shots and finally get satisfying groups. Then, on the next outing, the bullets would hit well off the previous mark. I checked the barrel for contact with the stock thinking heat deflection of the barrel was the cause. I found it to be free floating all the way up to the muzzle cap where it made light contact. I removed wood there and retested. No better. So, then I shimmed the muzzle cap/barrel area to create firm contact. Problem solved. No more wandering - cold barrel or hot barrel. Now its a delightful, confident, favorite that is a joy to carry on a still hunt.

 

[bang]

One of my best shooters is a full stock.

 

[Artificer]

I checked the barrel for contact with the stock thinking heat deflection of the barrel was the cause. I found it to be free floating all the way up to the muzzle cap where it made light contact. I removed wood there and retested. No better. So, then I shimmed the muzzle cap/barrel area to create firm contact. Problem solved. No more wandering - cold barrel or hot barrel. Now its a delightful, confident, favorite that is a joy to carry on a still hunt.

Tom,

I knew an older shooter who had competed in the National Matches in the 1930's with the Springfield 03 rifle and your experience mirrors what they knew very well back then. The 03 NM rifles shot much better with 4-6 pounds of tension applied at the very front of the stock, though the barrels were free floated from the breech to that point.

And to all,

I think it is important to consider what has been found on many original full stocked rifles. They inletted the breeches tightly for accuracy, inletted the muzzles tightly as well and just cleared the stock for the bottom of the barrel in between. Sometimes that clearance between these points was done rather crudely, as it would not be seen and saved labor costs. However, we may not be considering another factor they may well have known.

The original tightly inletted muzzles, though often explained as a way to keep the elements out of the stock, may have been known to them as an accuracy enhancer, just as was known on the NM Springfield 03 rifles and the example Tom gave above. Of course I have no way to prove that, though.

What we do know is the octagonal rifle barrels of much of the period of this forum were in fact "heavy" barrels or had a lot of weight to lessen vibrations when shooting the lower pressure period loads. We accept heavy barrels shoot better in modern rifles for this reason from scientific testing and of course from extensive practical experience. I see no reason to expect otherwise in barrels that were heavier than they needed to be in the period.

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think changes in atmospheric conditions from day to day will probably make more difference in your first shot clean cold barrel POI than than shot to shot variations within a string due to barrel heating or fouling buildup.