I just ordered some cherry red to harden a soft frizzen. Will I be able to do this with propane only or will I need oxygen acetylene set up?
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Frizzen hardening question
- Thread starter ArmorerRoy
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64Springer
75 Cal.
Thanks for the help and the chart.
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i find it helps me monitor the color if i heat in the almost dark.
64Springer
75 Cal.
And I'll add, work in a low light environment.
This will better allow you to see the color as your frizzen heats up.
JINX!
This will better allow you to see the color as your frizzen heats up.
JINX!
Sidney Smith
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I tried this stuff. Took the frizzen to work. Had a guy there us an Oxy torch to get it nice and hot. We quenched it in used motor oil. Didn't work at all. Gave up and just bought an already hardened frizzen.
64Springer
75 Cal.
Balloon meet Pop.
Phil Coffins
69 Cal.
Is that what the instructions said to quench in?
rich pierce
70 Cal.
Good luck. If you get improvement from the compound it may last 200 shots, unless you accidentally and unintentionally hardened it through and through, with the compound having no beneficial effect.
At best you will get a very shallow case hardening. As @rich pierce stated, it will not last long if you start with a low carbon frizzen. Do you happen to know what your frizzen is made out of?
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Sidney, i neglected to state that i had to treat mine twice. And i used distilled water warmed to neutral feel to quench it. so far about 250 shots and it still passes the file skating test.
i had purchased a Lyman replacement before attempting the treatment. It is still in the parts drawer. the treated one marks less than the replacement. lucky i guess.
Sidney Smith
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It says to quench in oil. Used motor oil has a lot of carbon in it, which is supposed to fuse to the steel better, or at least that's what I've been told by others.
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You were told wrong. Motor oil is one of the worst/poorest quenches one could use. It is made for lubrication and not heat treat quenching. It will impart absolutely no carbon of any significance into steel and its vapors are very toxic to breathe. Worst of all, it is a slow cooling quench and unsuitable for nearly all steels. You best oil, other than a formulated commercial quench oil, is often canola oil if you are working with a high carbon steel such as used for frizzens and most springs. 01 steel seems to work better than nothing with ATF, but again, very toxic vapors are produced.
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I use Kasenit. I use two old plumber’s torches placed at 90 degs from each other. I hold the object in the flames (in the garage). I process the piece through the flame twice. Quench in quench oil.
The pieces emerge hard.
The pieces emerge hard.
Yes, Kasenit worked great, but it is no longer sold due to the cyanide as one of the ingredients. Hence the search for a suitable hardening product.
You can do it with propane but much easier with MAPP gas.(yellow can) Burns hotter. I've done several and but I use Kasenite (spelling?).
Heat the frizzen up until it gets cherry red and spoon on the Cherry Red if its a powder like Kasenite. Keep the torch on it until it cooks off then dip the frizzen into a bucket of water.
Brush off all the excess product and reheat the base of the frizzen until the blue color just begins to go around the corner of the face and allow to air cool. This anneals the corner so it isn't as brittle as the face. (TIP when doing this last stem turn the lights down so you can watch the blue color and you don't heat too big an area.)
Heat the frizzen up until it gets cherry red and spoon on the Cherry Red if its a powder like Kasenite. Keep the torch on it until it cooks off then dip the frizzen into a bucket of water.
Brush off all the excess product and reheat the base of the frizzen until the blue color just begins to go around the corner of the face and allow to air cool. This anneals the corner so it isn't as brittle as the face. (TIP when doing this last stem turn the lights down so you can watch the blue color and you don't heat too big an area.)
When was this? I just bought a can last year. I guess I got it before my seller found out. There are still a couple on Ebay selling it.
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I just did 2 frizzens with Tracks Tru Spark. I boiled water in a canning pot then set it aside while I was heating frizzen. I used Map gas it's a little faster than propane. When frizzen part got cherry red I checked it with a magnet. The part where the flint strikes had lost it magnetism, but the metal at the rest of the frizzen had not. It was put face down in the Tru Spark for about 45 seconds then reheated until Tru Spark started bubbling and it lost magnetism again. I kept it heated for a full 4 minutes after that point, then dunked in hot water. Tested one and it sparks like crazy. I have not tested the other because I am cold blueing the gun but have noticed the blueing will not take on the hardened face of the frizzen so I'm assuming it is hard. Also drew back the non sparking part on frizzens until blue so they would not break. It worked great for me.
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Kasenit was taken off the market quite a few years ago. A government overreach. The cyanide it contained was of no significant concern and to my knowledge no one was ever harmed by it, and it worked, although none of these quick case hardening compound processes will match real pack case hardening, nor last a long time.
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I have a can of the original, used only once.
