First Impressions

[dbach]

I recently bought a Traditions 50 Caliber Kentucky Long Rifle muzzleloader. I had the opportunity to shoot it yesterday, my first time with the rifle and first time with a muzzle loader.

I must say I was surprised. I had no idea it would kick so hard. Seems like I read somewhere that the muzzle loaders didn't kick too bad. Well from my sore shoulder I'd guess to say my readings were wrong.

Over all I was impressed. I only shot it three times because I had company on the way and had to rush through it.

I used 80 grains of 2Fg Goex black powder and a 182 grain round ball, along with a bore buttered 100% cotton patch, which I had cut myself.

It was fun and sighting was difficult due to the lack of quality sights.

 

[dbach]

I have a new Traditions Kentucky Long Rifle. I do not like the sights that came with it.

Does anyone know some options here? Where can I find some decent sights and about what would they cost. These are dovetail sights.

 

[wayne terry]

Dixie Gun Works, Track of the Wolf price well how elaborate do you want simple and plain 10 bucks

 

[dbach]

The suggested load for my traditions Kentucky Long Rifle is 80 grains under a 182 grain 50 cal round ball.

I'm a re-loader and I'm used to specific loads for specific bullets.

Lets say I wanted to shoot a 277 grain cast lead bullet. Would the powder charge change? More or less? Is there a chart with these loads listed?

What about sabot loads?

 

[wayne terry]

As a simple rule for me start load is cal.size 50 cal. 50 grains max load with a round ball of course is twice cal.size 50 cal. 100 grains max with a bullet downsize 10% this is just a quick reference not law go by your guns recommendations if any nothing is set in stone you will just have to experiment but that's part of the fun and the hobby good luck to ya and have fun but most of all be safe.

 

[necchi]

There really isn't a "recommended" load chart for Traditional ML's.
Here's the deal,
There are too many individual variables brought to the loading regime by each person.
examples;
Fabric and thickness of the patch
Amount and type of patch lube
How hard each shooter packs the load

Just like CF experimentation is the only way to find the accurate load for each shooter and his gun.
Your 80grn load for that rifle is a little on the high side for real accuracy.

Experimentation of the load charge alone is best done in 5grn increments 50-55-60-65-70-,,,,

Another variable is how the bore condition is left after each shot. BP is dirty and leaves fouling, that fouling builds up each shot and changes the pressure developed behind the ball.
Each load experiment, if not each shot should be with a clean bore, at least one where the fouling has been reduced to the same condition as the first shot.
Black Powder is way different than our nitro powders and a lot of our cartridge loading experience needs to be tossed out the window, try to start with an mind open to learning a new experience.
We don't talk about sabot loads on this forum,, it's against the rules,, it might be a good idea to re-read the forum rules,,

 

[Claude Mathis]

What about sabot loads?

We don't discuss sabots here. Please read the rules again. :wink:

 

[Spikebuck]

Lets say I wanted to shoot a 277 grain cast lead bullet. Would the powder charge change? More or less? Is there a chart with these loads listed?

As stated, there is no hard and fast rule as each gun/shooter will vary, but I can say that in my .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken with a 1-65 twist and shallow, square grooves I shoot 90 grs of 2F whether I'm shooting a .530 patched roundball or a 435 gr Hornady Great Plains conical. Only difference is my drop at 100 yards is about 5 inches more with the conical, but groups are great with both. The next guy might shoot this load in his gun and find it doesn't work. And many will find that their slow-twist barrel won't shoot conicals at all.

Half the fun (and aggravation :grin: ) is figuring out what load you and your rifle like!

BTW...if your shoulder doesn't like a PRB, it surely won't like a conical! You will notice more kick, charge for charge, with a heavy conical. In the summertime hot weather (a relative term for a guy from Minnesota) I wear a shoulder pad while shooting in only a T-shirt or light shirt. Not only does it make shooting more pleasant, but it mimics heavier clothing I would be wearing during hunting season in regards to length of pull.

 

[dbach]

So ....

Lets say I'm shooting a 50 caliber 182 grain round ball out of a 31.5" barrel. The ball measures .495 and I'm using 100% cotton patch that measures .0135 Each patch is lightly treated with bore butter and the bore was swabbed with bore butter prior to shooting (as described on the bore butter tube).

The suggested minimum charge using 2Fg black powder is as follows 50 grains minimum and 110 maximum (taken from the book that came with the gun.

I averaged 50 and 110 and came up with a 80 grain average. This is how I arrived at 80 grains, I assumed this would be a mid range load.

Given the data, what would be a more accurate load?

Remember, I'm a rookie, don't assume I know as much as a seasoned shooter; I don't.

Any suggestion is appreciated.

PS
I did get the start at 50 grain suggestion. I may just ladder test starting there.

 

[nchawkeye]

It's like handloading, you have to actually shoot different powder charges to see what will be most accurate...

For target shooting, 50grs is fine...For deer hunting 75-80grs behind a patched ball is plenty...

I would try 2-3 different lubes and work up first a good target load, then work on a hunting load...

 

[mooman76]

Drop it down to 50-60 gr and it won't kick so hard.

 

[mooman76]

Cainsoutdoor is another good place for sights and other parts.

 

[necchi]

Yes do start at 50, then clean the bore, then try 55, then clean the bore, then try 60,,,ect
I'd work it up to 75 for now,, you will see one charge that will pattern better than the others.

This whole thing is going to take some time shooting, remember when you first started loading and it took a few boxes of bullets before you learned what to do and found that sweet group? Same thing here.
Your rifle may even prefer 490 ball.
These rifles and traditional muzzle loading isn't like a 308 and 168grn Sierra Match Kings.

 

[dikman]

Not too sure about swabbing with Bore Butter prior to shooting.
Some rifles can be shot several times without cleaning, some will need swabbing between shots (if you have trouble pushing the ball/patch down, there's a very good chance the fouling is building up too quickly and swabbing with a damp patch - NOT cleaning - may be necessary).

 

[VEARL]

Might try Modern Inline muzzleloading forum for sabot answers.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Let’s talk about it hurting your shoulder for a minute. First off you are shooting a Traditions Kentucky rifle that has a curved butt plate. You don’t shoulder it; the butt goes in the crook where your arm meets your shoulder. It’s a common rookie mistake.
Next, 80 grains is a big plenty for that gun. And shooting saboted or conical bullets will increase the recoil and will not likely perform well in a gun with a 1/66 rifling twist.
Stick with a round ball. Find your accurate load somewhere between 50-80 grains.

 

[Billnpatti]

Okay, forget sabot bullets. First, they are highly unlikely to shoot well in your rifle because if the twist rate of the rifling. Secondly, they are appropriate for the modern inline rifles and this forum is strictly limited to talking about traditional style of muzzleloaders.

Okay, with that behind us, let me give you a simplified method for finding the best load for your rifle. Following this method, you will likely find two loads that your rifle will shoot well with. First, start with a powder charge that is equal to your caliber. 50 grains for a .50 caliber rifle. You will be shooting at about 25 to 50 yards. Later, you can adjust your sights to put your shots where you want them. But for this part, all you are interested in is how big the group is and you don't give a darn where it is just as long as it is on the paper. You will be shooting from a sand bag rest and you will first fire a non-scoring fouling shot from a clean and dry bore just to get your bore ready. Betweern each and every shot, you will wipe your bore with a patch that is damp, not wet. Just one simple stroke in and one stroke out. No pumping. Pumping will result in a bore taht will vary just a bit from shot to shot. You don't want that. Fire five shots with 50 grains of black powder. Change to a new target (mark each target so you know what charge you used when you fired that target). Go to 55 grains and fire five shots and so on until you get to 110 grains. Compare your targets to see what charge gives you the tightest group. It is a slow process but it is a necessary one.

Later, I will tell you about finding the best lube for your patches. But you first need to discover what charges will give you the tightest groups.