Finding flashhole dimensions?

Discussion in 'Smoothbore' started by dandan noodles, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. Jan 22, 2020 #1

    dandan noodles

    dandan noodles

    dandan noodles

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    I recently got interested in acquiring a Prussian 1801 musket, but all the sellers for my price range deliver the weapon without the flashhole drilled. This is complicated by the fact that the 1801 had a conical venthole to funnel powder into the pan and thus eliminate the need to prime it, so it's not just knowing a good size for a cylindrical hole, but also the interior dimensions of the channel. Where would I find the historic measurements for a gun like this? I contacted the seller, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
     
  2. Jan 22, 2020 #2

    Britsmoothy

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  3. Jan 22, 2020 #3

    dandan noodles

    dandan noodles

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    Why what?
     
  4. Jan 22, 2020 #4

    tenngun

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    You really don’t want it to be self priming. This was done to speed loading and not for gun function. In battle the trade off between shooting fast and a dangerous tool was worth it. To a modern shooter it’s not.
    In down range performance it saps power and consistency. Go with a straight touch hole or put in a liner, better yet buy from a company that has already drilled a touch hole, no predrilled touch hole is sold on a gun the seller tells you not to shoot.
     
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  5. Jan 22, 2020 #5

    Britsmoothy

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    Waste your time on a futile exercise. Besides how the heck are you going to drill a tapered hole from inside?

    Life's to short friend.....
     
  6. Jan 22, 2020 #6

    dandan noodles

    dandan noodles

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    I talked to a local gunsmith, and they said drilling that kind of hole would present no special challenges with the bits and jigs they have on hand, they just need the dimensions. In any case, I like the history of the piece, and if that's not reason enough, what are y'all doing with thoroughly obsolete weapons anyway?
     
  7. Jan 22, 2020 #7

    tenngun

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    We all have to make our choices. Barrels are modern steel, tents are fire proof, we eat salt pork made from pigs that hadn’t been bred yet, we wear wool from sheep’s not yet bred, or eat apples ect that had not yet been bred.
    The people who sell the guns without touch holes tell you in the ads that the gun was not made for live fire.
    At an event we hang flash protectors on the lock, in America at least one never uses a ramrod in a reinactment. We do live in the here and now.
     
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  8. Jan 22, 2020 #8

    dandan noodles

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    Look, I'm comfortable taking marginally greater risk (black powder is already pretty risky and completely unnecessary, and the seller all but tells you to get your vent hole made so you can shoot), so if you can't answer the question about finding specs for the 1801 musket, I'm not really interested.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2020 #9

    tenngun

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    Ok
    But I would take exception to ‘black powder is already risky,’ and when ‘ the seller all but tells you to get a vent hole made so you can shoot’ I find that reading between the lines only finds you blank space.
    Black powder is only risky if
    1) the gun is unsafe to shoot
    2) the shooter is unsafe.
     
  10. Jan 22, 2020 #10

    Britsmoothy

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    Good luck with your quest.
    As for "thoroughly obsolete weapons" is that not your opinion as you expressed it and hence forth I got to return to my first reply.....why?
    You may believe they are obsolete but mine have and do feed a small family and thus are far from "obsolete"!
    Bye.
     
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  11. Jan 22, 2020 #11

    dandan noodles

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    You don't seem to know what obsolete means; whatever you can do with a flintlock smooth bore, you can do better and cheaper with a more modern weapon. In any case, my interest is historical/antiquarian; I like the Napoleonic Wars, want to test what the weapon is capable of.
     
  12. Jan 22, 2020 #12

    Rudyard

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    dandan noodles . I regret I cant give you the vent details you seek though internal coneing is feasible .Ten guns point is a bit obscure , But Mr Smoothies are chimerous though he does take good photo's he seems wont to make silly observations I would normally ignore. I was a Waterloo did Napolionic So can see where your coming from. Good luck with the tests .Regards Rudyard
     
  13. Jan 22, 2020 #13

    Zonie

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    I have a few questions. Is this a new barrel installed on a old original gun? It seems it must be because an original would already have its vent hole. If it has had the barrel replaced, did the builder use a good barrel or is it possibly made out of DOM tubing?
    Drawn Over Mandral tubing is not seamless tubing. It is rolled and seam welded. IMO, This type of tubing is not made to contain the explosive pressures of a black powder charge.

    As for any historical information about the physical dimensions of a tapered vent I seriously doubt that any records still exist.
    If you do want to have a vent hole drilled, I would use a 5/64" (.078") diameter drill. That size is towards the large size often used on modern flintlock barrels.
     
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  14. Jan 23, 2020 #14

    Grenadier1758

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    As I read the original post, dandan has apparently found a new made musket that is delivered without the touch hole being drilled. I would have to ask "What is the country of origin for this musket?" This musket may have been built to meet shooting requirements, but was exported as a non-shooting replica. Before I would make any suggestions to dandan, I think I would need some more information.

    That gun would have to be inspected by a competent muzzle loading gunsmith before getting the touch hole drilled.
     
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  15. Jan 24, 2020 #15

    dandan noodles

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    This is the one I was looking at; the site definitely doesn't tell you not to shoot it. I've heard these are india manufacture guns mostly, for however much that's worth.
     
  16. Jan 24, 2020 #16

    Zonie

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    If the gun is one of the "made in India" guns, we have a huge thread that debates (and re-debates) the merits of lack of them about the guns here on the forum. Here is a link to it. It is well worth reading.

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/indian-muskets.113841/

    As the reader will quickly learn, there are some strong feelings on both sides of the question about how safe these guns are to shoot.
    As far as I'm concerned, the jury is leaning towards the guns being safe but the final decision is still out.
     
  17. Jan 24, 2020 #17

    bud in pa

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    As I remember Loyalist arm would deliver you a firearm with or without the touch hole drilled . With touch hole it must be sent to a facility with a customs agent to inspect and register it, and you must pay the customs charge. No touch hole they put it in a box and send it off via UPS to your door. At least that is the way I remember reading about it, but then again I am a senior citizen.
     
  18. Jan 24, 2020 #18

    Stumpkiller

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    I am sure the seller won't give you the information on drilling a vent for the same reason they don't drill it themselves. To remove their liability if it blows apart.

    I've seen ways to accomplish the internal cone ranging from Flintstone to Einstein: Pull the breech plug and use a small conical burr threaded through the vent, use an angled bit, drill a plugged hole on the barrel wall opposite, install a modern vent plug.

    But I really don't see the reason a repro would benefit from the coning. It's not that detailed a copy that it would be the glaring divergence from the originals. I'd go 3/32" to begin with and work from there.
     
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