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Finding BP Around Waco?
- Thread starter BigErn
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John Wasmuth
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Closest place I know of that you can get real black powder is Dons Gun Shop in San Antonio. 72 mile round trip for me but its worth it.
paulvallandigham
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Remember that even in retail stores that carry BP, the stores are NOT ALLOWED to display it. You have to ask for it. If you don't ask, they will sell you the substitutes. Grrrr. :cursing:
Many BP shooters either don't understand this, or have forgotten. You can't be shy when looking for BP. Its all the regulations relating to the storage and sale of BP that has chased retailers away from carrying it. You can order it form suppliers, listed HERE on the forum, up under "Links". You have Coonies, in N. Mexico, Jerry's in Louisianna, Graf and Sons in Missouri, Powder, Inc. in Arkansas. All will sell you powder, but you have to pay a Haz Mat fee with each delivery. It therefore PAYS to go together with other shooters and order powder by the case, as it spreads the Haz Mat fee over the cost of 25 lbs, rather than one or two. Case price is about $14.00 per lb. for 25 lbs. You usually can mix both granular sizes, and even brands of powder. Graf and Sons, and Powder Inc, have house powders, with names like Graf, Wano, Shuetzen, KIK, etc. in addition to Goex and Swiss powders.Some of the House brands are $1.00 or more cheaper per lb. than Goex. People here who have shot these brands indicate that it burns as well as Goex, and is as clean. Swiss powders are considered the most expensive Black Powders at this time.
The Goex website lists distributors for all the states, and a phone call to the distributor for Texas should get you the name and address of your closet retailer.
The Texas State ML Association has a range at Brady, Texas, and those folks can also help you find sources of powder.
Many BP shooters either don't understand this, or have forgotten. You can't be shy when looking for BP. Its all the regulations relating to the storage and sale of BP that has chased retailers away from carrying it. You can order it form suppliers, listed HERE on the forum, up under "Links". You have Coonies, in N. Mexico, Jerry's in Louisianna, Graf and Sons in Missouri, Powder, Inc. in Arkansas. All will sell you powder, but you have to pay a Haz Mat fee with each delivery. It therefore PAYS to go together with other shooters and order powder by the case, as it spreads the Haz Mat fee over the cost of 25 lbs, rather than one or two. Case price is about $14.00 per lb. for 25 lbs. You usually can mix both granular sizes, and even brands of powder. Graf and Sons, and Powder Inc, have house powders, with names like Graf, Wano, Shuetzen, KIK, etc. in addition to Goex and Swiss powders.Some of the House brands are $1.00 or more cheaper per lb. than Goex. People here who have shot these brands indicate that it burns as well as Goex, and is as clean. Swiss powders are considered the most expensive Black Powders at this time.
The Goex website lists distributors for all the states, and a phone call to the distributor for Texas should get you the name and address of your closet retailer.
The Texas State ML Association has a range at Brady, Texas, and those folks can also help you find sources of powder.
Pete Gaimari
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Since Swiss burns cleaner from making the charcoal from Alder trees. I would think that Graf, Wano, and Schuetzen (all the same powder) which also use Alder charcoal, would be cleaner than Goex too. :idunno:
paulvallandigham
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Those powders are Not made by the same manufacturer, as the Swiss, and are not made from Alder Charcoal. Only the Swiss are using that formulation.
Pete Gaimari
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Never said they were made by Swiss. Read slower.
I've read many times that Schuetzen uses Alder charcoal. Wano makes Schuetzen. Wano/Schuetzen makes the powder for Graf.
2+2 = 4
I've read many times that Schuetzen uses Alder charcoal. Wano makes Schuetzen. Wano/Schuetzen makes the powder for Graf.
2+2 = 4
Pete Gaimari
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Do your research before you call me wrong Paul.
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/index.php/products
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/index.php/products
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John Wasmuth
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Here is their information. Usually the stay open till 2:00pm on saturdays.
Dons Gun Shop
3724 Northwest Loop 410
San Antonio, TX 78201
(210) 736-0263
What PV said about getting some people together and ordering it is a good idea, a group of us that meet twice a year or so have done this. However if you are the only one in your group, as many are, it will take a large chunk of change to order it in bulk. Cabelas in Buda used to sell it but thats been at least three years ago. Hope that this information helps you.
Dons Gun Shop
3724 Northwest Loop 410
San Antonio, TX 78201
(210) 736-0263
What PV said about getting some people together and ordering it is a good idea, a group of us that meet twice a year or so have done this. However if you are the only one in your group, as many are, it will take a large chunk of change to order it in bulk. Cabelas in Buda used to sell it but thats been at least three years ago. Hope that this information helps you.
Pete Gaimari
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As an added bonus. If you buy a 25 lb case you get free Hazmat and shipping.
paulvallandigham
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I knew that Wano and Shuetzen powders were made by the same manufacturer. I didn't know that they were using Alder charcoal. Thank you for the citation, Pete.
Their burn rates do not equal the Swiss powders, however. And, I suspect there is a difference within Alder Charcoals, depending on when the bushes are cut, and where, and how long they are allowed to dry before they are heated to charcoal. There are two other things that Swiss does to its powder making- besides using Alder charcoal, that can affect velocities. They use a slightly higher proportion of Potassium nitrate; AND the size of the granules is smaller than the comparably designated American Powder sizes.
Since Powder burns from the outside inward, smaller granule sizing puts more granules of powder in the same space, and that will produce more gas, faster, when burned.
When my brother tested his Swiss powder vs. his Goex 3Fg powder in his .40 caliber rifle, he found that equal amounts, by volume of the two powders produces a couple of hundred FPS more velocity using the Swiss powder.
However, when he used a Walter's Vegetable Over powder wad on top of both powders, using the same volume measure of powder, and the same PRB, a greater improvement was seen in the Goex powder, than in the Swiss, and the Gap between the two MVs closed to less than 100 fps.
I would expect to see the same result if Wano, or Shuetzen, or Graf, or Kik, or any other brand of Black Powder if a similar test was done to compare velocities with Swiss powders.
On cleaning the barrel after shooting both powders with the OP wads, BTW, Peter found that both barrels had the same amount of residue on his patches, and both were as easy to clean as the other. That would seem to indicate that giving Goex a Better Seal helps get more complete burning of the powder, for maximum performance. Oh- SDV dropped for both powders, using the OP wads, too. The Greater drop occurred with the Goex powder.
I did not call you wrong. I merely thought you made a mistaken assumption. I WAS WRONG. Thank you for correcting me. :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup:
Their burn rates do not equal the Swiss powders, however. And, I suspect there is a difference within Alder Charcoals, depending on when the bushes are cut, and where, and how long they are allowed to dry before they are heated to charcoal. There are two other things that Swiss does to its powder making- besides using Alder charcoal, that can affect velocities. They use a slightly higher proportion of Potassium nitrate; AND the size of the granules is smaller than the comparably designated American Powder sizes.
Since Powder burns from the outside inward, smaller granule sizing puts more granules of powder in the same space, and that will produce more gas, faster, when burned.
When my brother tested his Swiss powder vs. his Goex 3Fg powder in his .40 caliber rifle, he found that equal amounts, by volume of the two powders produces a couple of hundred FPS more velocity using the Swiss powder.
However, when he used a Walter's Vegetable Over powder wad on top of both powders, using the same volume measure of powder, and the same PRB, a greater improvement was seen in the Goex powder, than in the Swiss, and the Gap between the two MVs closed to less than 100 fps.
I would expect to see the same result if Wano, or Shuetzen, or Graf, or Kik, or any other brand of Black Powder if a similar test was done to compare velocities with Swiss powders.
On cleaning the barrel after shooting both powders with the OP wads, BTW, Peter found that both barrels had the same amount of residue on his patches, and both were as easy to clean as the other. That would seem to indicate that giving Goex a Better Seal helps get more complete burning of the powder, for maximum performance. Oh- SDV dropped for both powders, using the OP wads, too. The Greater drop occurred with the Goex powder.
I did not call you wrong. I merely thought you made a mistaken assumption. I WAS WRONG. Thank you for correcting me. :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup:
Pete Gaimari
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Oh, I agree that Swiss has more power than Goex and Schuetzen.
I was only talking about Schuetzen burning cleaner than Goex, because it uses Alder charcoal.
I might be wrong on that too. It could be that Swiss burns cleaner because of something else besides the Alder being used. I read that article that explained how Swiss is made. It's pretty involved and it's clear why they have to charge more.
I was only talking about Schuetzen burning cleaner than Goex, because it uses Alder charcoal.
I might be wrong on that too. It could be that Swiss burns cleaner because of something else besides the Alder being used. I read that article that explained how Swiss is made. It's pretty involved and it's clear why they have to charge more.
As has been suggested, ordering it in quantities of 5 pounds or more ends up costing less per pound than buying from a store. Lately one pound of Goex is going for $23 in local stores whereas if you ordered 5 pounds from Powder Inc. the price including shipping and hazmat fee is a little over $21 per can. Two months agoBigErn said:
I went in with some other folks for a 25 pound order which dropped the price just under $14 per can.
If you aren't using a flintlock and just can't get Goex, Triple 7 works very well.
Lonegun1894
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I have'nt been able to find it around Waco in years. The last two places I know of that used to sell it are Reb's Trading Post in Robinson, and Praco in Waco. Reb's I dont know how to contact anymore, and Praco didn't carry it anymore as of the last time I asked them about a year ago. Worst they can say is no though, so I'll have to ask again sometime.
Tom Compton
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Dunno if they (Texas ML Rifle Assn) still have the Frost on the Cactus shoot at Brady. Was in February - third WE I believe. Heard they moved it to March. Anyway there was a vendor from up Witchita Falls way who came and sold Goex along with a lot of other nice supplies.
TC
TC
I know that Bass Pro shop in San Antonio carries Goex. That's a little far to go from Waco but the only other one of their stores is in Grapevine, so if that is closer to you, give them a call and be sure to ask to speak to the manager of the firearms section as most employees don't know the difference between smokeless powder and traditional black. Good luck.BigErn said:
