FFFFg

[nkbj]

Often as not in a 1858 I'll be shooting FFFg or Jack's Battle Powder behind bullets cast with .45 molds and sized to shear on the front band (the back end slipping into dirty chambers).
From what I understand people are using Triple 7 to get more power from the available powder space in somewhat the same manner as the real fine grain powdery pistol powder used in military ammo in the 1860's.

So I got to wondering, are any of you fellas burning FFFg in your Colts or Remingtons?

 

[rodwha]

Did you mean 4F as with the title or 3F as you asked?

From the few chronographed results I’ve seen posted T7 gives slightly less velocity than either Swiss or Olde Eynsford.

My accurate load in my NMA, which doesn’t change if I change projectiles (.457” ball, 170 or 195 grn bullet), is 30 grns of 3F Olde E or T7. The Olde E charge weighs about 33 grns and from chronographed results it’s likely producing standard .45 ACP performance with a bullet. To me that’s plenty so I wouldn’t see a need to try 4F which would have to be Swiss to be better than what I’m getting. Standard Goex 4F would probably reduce the performance.

 

[nkbj]

You're right about leaving out an F.
I'll go fix that.

Thinking about it moment, FFFFg might trickle out the nipples while you was loading it.

 

[nkbj]

Oh, too late. Caint edit it.

 

[rodwha]

Maybe 4F could trickle out of stock nipples but I seriously doubt it could with aftermarket nipples. Those flash channels are tiny and Ruger nipples apparently handle 4F just fine, which I think might fall between the two.

 

[Zonie]

I'm a firm believer in the adage that says, "Don't use 4F powder for anything except priming a flintlocks pan."

That said, I think it could be used in small caliber pistols like the Colt 1848-1849 Pocket pistol or the Remington Pocket Pistol, both of which are .31 caliber.

I also seem to remember reading someones post where they tried shooting 4F in larger caliber revolvers and checked the velocity with a chronograph against the velocities measured using 3F powder.
In each case, the 4F powder produced lower speeds.

I couldn't rationalize out the reasons that this might be true but, as I recall, that's what he found.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
In most cases, if you check the cylinder wall thickness, you would not consider 4F, as the breech pressures are very high, and could cause a cylinder crack :nono:
A new can of Pyrodex or Tripple 7 will let you shoot all day without the cylinder and action freezing up.
Fred

 

[Golfswithwolves]

The Lyman BP manual I have does not show any real velocity advantage for the 4F over 3F in their revolver testing. Based on this I am not tempted by 4F.

 

[rodwha]

And with what an energetic powder can provide I just don’t see a reason. I could understand wanting more oomph if someone were using standard Goex with the much lower velocities it produces, but Swiss, Olde E, and T7 can give exceptional velocities.

I’d be curious about the pressures comparing 3F Olde E and 4F standard Goex.

 

[nkbj]

The more rapid burning finer powder put in the percussion revolver cartridges was used for the purpose of generating a more energetic impulse in a smaller volume of material. They did that because of needing pointy projectiles and that did of course create a reduction in the chamber space available for the propellant charge. So the solution was a finer (more powdery :haha: ) powder.
But wanting more powerful loads? The only time I carried a percussion revolver into a real fracas it was before I knew about the history behind that ammunition development. That was 1976 and I was using an extremely accurate and powerful load with a Lee 9mm mold bored out with a 3/8" bit. But I got really good results from FFFg. So I've never seen the need to up the power of my loads since then using FFFFg because mice and bunnies don't take a lot of killing. So I asked if any of yall had tried it. For all I know somebody might have been wanting to create historically accurate cartridges for their "Civil War" percussion revolver. Or they might use smaller charges in a manner similar to the practices of the 1860's. It might be a more accurate loading for your particular piece with half the space taken up by cornmeal and a gob of lube. Or somebody might be cranking out lots of flame and smoke in their Ruger Old Army and tried it there.

About mice and bunnies, yep, once upon a time outside of Gunsight, Texas I defended myself from a feral field mouse with a 1861. :rotf: Shoulder shot was a clean kill. The picture was lost in a fire or I'd proudly have it on the wall of the hobby room today.

 

[George]

Or somebody might be cranking out lots of flame and smoke in their Ruger Old Army and tried it there.

I've shot a lot of max loads 4F Goex with round ball in a Ruger Old Army. I liked to shoot at a 100 yard 12-inch gong and it worked very well for that.

Spence

 

[Micah Clark]

A book I own titled Muzzleloader Hunting in the small game chapter the author says that he played around with 4F in his .32 rifle, (a T/C Cherokee, I think) but couldn't get anything from it consistently or better the the standard 3F.

 

[shdwlkr]

Zonie
I am with you on using 3F instead of 4F in most black powder pistols the only exception I am aware of is the one made by North American Arms .22 caliber that uses 4 grains of 4F powder. I have found 3F to work in everything from .32 caliber to .58 caliber, the latter really should use 2F for best results. Just what I noticed when I had black powder firearms.