Euroarms Rogers & Spencer 44 revolver

[jonathan butcher]

I recently came into a Euroarms Rogers & Spencer revolver made in 1979 which has a couple of interesting attributes. It appears the previous owner removed the finish to bare metal in the interests of aging the gun. The fellow member I bought it from told me he acquired a large collection from a recently deceased Civil War 'skirmisher' which I took to mean re-enactor. It also appears he replaced the original barrel with either a custom barrel or a special order from Euroarms. He dovetailed a larger front sight blade and the barrel features load info for the gun under the loading lever !
Mechanically it appears to be tight and indexing perfectly. The bore is as new indicating it may not have been shot much if at all.
I was surprised to find that cocking the gun feels nothing like cocking a Colt open top. Those of you who have one of these know what I mean, it's just.. different.
I've yet to shoot the gun but I intend to start with the load info under the barrel. I understand the Rogers & Spencer is an accuarate shooter, am looking forward to some range time and will post results. I would very much like to hear from other Rogers & Spencer owners to learn of any quirks, tips or info.
Here are a few pics;

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

One of the best repros yet, Congrats!

 

[hawkeye2]

You have a real treasure there! Don't ever part with it as you'll never replace it. That gun was given the full treatment by the late Tom Ball who was a legendary pistolsmith and I don't know of anyone today who is his equal. Tom specialized in cap & ball revolvers and if you shot in the N-SSA you aspired to have one of his guns. The cylinder and barrel are sized to take a .457" round ball and no smaller. The twist is 1 in 16" and was one of Tom's barrels and if I remember he got the blanks from Bobby Hoyt custom made to his specs. Everything in that revolver has been reworked to Tom's satisfaction. 84 was probably the year he did the work and I have no idea what the longer # is other than possibly for his records. His underbarrel stamping varied over the years however if the gun doesn't have that (or similar) stamping it is not one of his completely reworked guns. I see revolvers offered for sale occasionally that are claimed to have been given one of his accuracy jobs but without those markings they are BS. Tom would rework your gun or sell you one that he had in stock. Most of his guns he bought and reworked for resale were Piettas. When I asked him why (Piettas were not a quality gun back then) he said something to the effect of "Why pay more if I'm going to replace or rework everything anyway". Tom also took new revolvers, tuned them and cut an11 deg. forcing cone and sold them as a budget gun. These were not marked like the accurized ones and as far as I am concerned don't command a premium over any other tuned revolver. BTW when you got your gun back from him you got a test target, one round from each chamber, 20 grains GOEX 3f and cream of wheat fired in a Ransom rest at 25 yards.

My match revolver was a Euroarms R&S that I had Tom rework after I saved up enough and it wasn't cheap back then (he finished it on 3-91). With it in hand I moved up to being a serious competitor at the nationals finishing in the top 3 a number of times. Jack Rawls, co-founder of the NSSA. had handed me the gun to shoot and after about a year I gave him $60 for it, shot it for a season and then turned it over to Tom for his magic. I acquired one of his Remingtons from a now deceased team member a couple of years ago and the test target that came with it has all six in one hole that measures 13/16" outside diameter, 25 yards. I offered it to my wife to replace her reworked Uberti but she hasn't made a decision yet. It's doubtful I would ever sell it.

I have no idea what your gun is actually worth, more if it had the original finish I'm sure. BTW reenactors and skirmishers are two different animals though we have members that do both. Skirmishers have lead balls, reenactors have none.

 

[sourdough]

hawkeye2,

Very good write-up on this (and other) Tom Ball revolvers. I had no knowledge of these and would likely have just passed on it.

Education and knowledge are foremost.

Thank you!

Regards,

Jim

 

[hawkeye2]

Jim thank you for the compliment, it means a lot coming from one as knowledgeable as you. I'll probably post more about Ball and his revolvers later, possibly as a new thread. I'm very busy right now taking care of odds n ends, knee replacement in the AM and a lot to do.

 

[jonathan butcher]

Hawkeye2,
Thank you so much for your post, it's more than I'd hoped for when I started the thread. The action/ trigger pull is nothing short of excellent and I can't wait to actually shoot it. First though I'll have to find .457 balls, after a quick search it appears that's going to be easier said than done. I could not find any.
Please do post more about Tom Ball and skirmishers in this thread if you're able, I had no idea of the distinction between the terms.

You have a real treasure there! Don't ever part with it as you'll never replace it. That gun was given the full treatment by the late Tom Ball who was a legendary pistolsmith and I don't know of anyone today who is his equal. Tom specialized in cap & ball revolvers and if you shot in the N-SSA you aspired to have one of his guns. The cylinder and barrel are sized to take a .457" round ball and no smaller. The twist is 1 in 16" and was one of Tom's barrels and if I remember he got the blanks from Bobby Hoyt custom made to his specs. Everything in that revolver has been reworked to Tom's satisfaction. 84 was probably the year he did the work and I have no idea what the longer # is other than possibly for his records. His underbarrel stamping varied over the years however if the gun doesn't have that (or similar) stamping it is not one of his completely reworked guns. I see revolvers offered for sale occasionally that are claimed to have been given one of his accuracy jobs but without those markings they are BS. Tom would rework your gun or sell you one that he had in stock. Most of his guns he bought and reworked for resale were Piettas. When I asked him why (Piettas were not a quality gun back then) he said something to the effect of "Why pay more if I'm going to replace or rework everything anyway". Tom also took new revolvers, tuned them and cut an11 deg. forcing cone and sold them as a budget gun. These were not marked like the accurized ones and as far as I am concerned don't command a premium over any other tuned revolver. BTW when you got your gun back from him you got a test target, one round from each chamber, 20 grains GOEX 3f and cream of wheat fired in a Ransom rest at 25 yards.

My match revolver was a Euroarms R&S that I had Tom rework after I saved up enough and it wasn't cheap back then (he finished it on 3-91). With it in hand I moved up to being a serious competitor at the nationals finishing in the top 3 a number of times. Jack Rawls, co-founder of the NSSA. had handed me the gun to shoot and after about a year I gave him $60 for it, shot it for a season and then turned it over to Tom for his magic. I acquired one of his Remingtons from a now deceased team member a couple of years ago and the test target that came with it has all six in one hole that measures 13/16" outside diameter, 25 yards. I offered it to my wife to replace her reworked Uberti but she hasn't made a decision yet. It's doubtful I would ever sell it.

I have no idea what your gun is actually worth, more if it had the original finish I'm sure. BTW reenactors and skirmishers are two different animals though we have members that do both. Skirmishers have lead balls, reenactors have none.

 

[Zonie]

The only thing I can contribute to this conversation is to say, do not take the sideplate off of the pistol in an attempt to clean out the insides of the gun.

The Rogers & Spencer is quite complicated so, leave it alone.

 

[sourdough]

BTW reenactors and skirmishers are two different animals though we have members that do both. Skirmishers have lead balls, reenactors have none.

Although I am not a part of either philosophy, I would have to agree. I do not understand the idea of having a revolver look like it is 150+ years old being used by someone wearing a brand new uniform.

Regards,

Jim

 

[sourdough]

The only thing I can contribute to this conversation is to say, do not take the sideplate off of the pistol in an attempt to clean out the insides of the gun. The Rogers & Spencer is quite complicated so, leave it alone.

I have heard so many good things about R&S revolvers, have seen several for sale that really impressed me, yet I know very little about them. I have been stuck in a Colt rut for many years, for better or worse.

Time to study and hope the $1400 stimulus check comes soon. Had I had the money in the past 6 months, several have been offered for sale, either at auction or outright. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with no funds.

Hopefully I can find my crystal ball, but my 20/20 hindsight is of little use these days.

Regards,

Jim

 

[bang]

First revolver I bought around 81. Still shoots and still all original. Took many a squirrel and rabbit with it. Even used it in mock gunfights. Great shooter.

 

[B P Arn]

I don't have anything to add to what the OP stated, other than to reiterate that the Rogers & Spencer revolvers definitely have a feel of their own, unlike all others.

Mine is a great shooting gun.

I got this generic holster on a "package deal", with no idea of what is was supposed to fit. I modified it to fit my S&R revolver, and removed the non-period correct metal snap fastener. I replaced that with a brass stud.

 

[Justin.44]

First though I'll have to find .457 balls, after a quick search it appears that's going to be easier said than done. I could not find any.

If you can't find any I could spare 30 or so (no charge, just pay shipping) if that's enough to get out there and try it out. PM me if you'd want them. Justin

 

[B P Arn]

The only thing I can contribute to this conversation is to say, do not take the sideplate off of the pistol in an attempt to clean out the insides of the gun.

The Rogers & Spencer is quite complicated so, leave it alone.

I detail strip mine every time I shoot it, just like all of my other BP revolvers (with only one exception*), but it is a little tricky. I have the DBI book which includes disassembly and re-assembly of this revolver, and I would not attempt it without the book.

*I have never detail stripped my Pietta Colt Paterson.

 

[B P Arn]

If you can't find any I could spare 30 or so (no charge, just pay shipping) if that's enough to get out there and try it out. PM me if you'd want them. Justin

I would also send the OP some balls if needed. I cast my own, so material cost is next to nothing for me. Just pay postage.

 

[ord sgt]

I have no idea what your gun is actually worth, more if it had the original finish I'm sure. BTW reenactors and skirmishers are two different animals though we have members that do both. Skirmishers have lead balls, reenactors have none.

Skirmishers are offended when called re-enactors. Re-enactors run around shooting blanks.

 

[jonathan butcher]

To the kind members who've offered to send a few balls my way, grateful pm's are inbound! I can't find a box to buy anywhere.
I'll admit I didn't fully understand the term 'skirmishers' until I did some reading over at NSSA. I now understand and appreciate the distinction.
Does anyone know of the Rogers & Spencer being used on the post-War frontier ?

 

[B P Arn]

I think it is safe to say that anything that fired a bullet was used on the post-war frontier, in one way or another.

 

[BullRunBear]

The long time original owner of my Euroarms R&S suggested 25 grs of 3F powder under a .457 ball. He found that was the most accurate load for that specific revolver. He was right, as I learned at the range. The only cap and ball revolver I shoot better than the R&S if the Ruger Old Army. It offers outstanding accuracy.

At this moment (I just checked), MidwayUSA has Speer .457 round ball, 100 balls for $11 bucks. I was surprised.

Jeff

 

[Kansas Jake]

It is my understanding that the R&S was not issued during the war and were finally sold to Bannerman's in the late 1800s and sold by them as surplus. There may have been a very few used during the war. I doubt they were available until Bannerman's aquired them. But that is speculation on my part.

 

[jonathan butcher]

Bannerman acquired them in 1901, but the span between the end of the Civil War and the settling of the frontier is what I’m curious about. Were ALL R&S revolvers stored away, or were civilian models used by individuals? There is remarkably little info about these guns generally.