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Elk with 54PRB

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Sharp Shooter

45 Cal.
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I know there have been many posts on this same topic. How close do I need to get to make sure a .530 roundball with 100gr will go all the way through an elk? Even if it doese not go all the way will it still to a good job?
 
Never tried it past 70 yards, but sure did the job on Roosevelts for me, as well as one moose. All broadside lung shots. Since Rocky Mountain elk are quite a bit smaller, I'd expect even better penetration with them.
 
Haw far would you shoot a moose in Alaska with a 54cal PRB and 100gr FFG? Say you were a good shot out to 100yds would you take a broadside shot?
 
Have shot a few elk w/ a .54 using 130 grs. 2f Goex, .535 RB and .020 patch. This load is a real stopper on elk and the penetration on the last elk {lead cow} was through the ribs to just under the hide on the opposite shoulder {107 paced off yds.}. The RB was the size of a quarter and was found when cutting the meat. All the elk shot w/ the .54 RB went only short distances and were easily recovered. Used to use a .300 Win. Mag and the .54 is just as good if the shots are under 125 yds.....Fred
 
I only have experience with connicals on elk.

Everything I have read on .54 prb for elk recommends broadside shots at 50 yards or less since a ball losses velocity so quickly.

I would like to try a prb in my .54 next year, but I worry about penetration with a 230 gr ball if any bone is hit on impact. I am thinking about picking up a .58 caliber barrel to get a little more momentum with a 290 gr ball.
 
100 yards provides good visibility for stalking closer. I wouldn't think of shooting a moose that far, even with a conical.

With PRB, I'm staying inside 50 yards, and 25 yards is a whole lot more "interesting." Broadside only, through the ribs with no shoulder involved.

Thinking seriously about an over-60cal smoothie, maybe even a 75. Not that I feel the need, but it would be "interesting."
 
pab1 said:
Everything I have read on .54 prb for elk recommends broadside shots at 50 yards or less since a ball losses velocity so quickly.

Don't believe everything you read. Here's a quote from Dave Henderson, a muzzleloader Q&A advisory guy from the North American Hunting Club when asked about a .50 for deer hunting;
"...a sidelock .50-caliber muzzleloader shooting a patched round ball with 90 grains of blackpowder would have very little energy left at 100 yards. Some shooters might tell you something different, but that setup has lethal energy out to only 50 yards or so."
Then he goes on to extoll the virtues of them modern type MLs.
The big buck I shot at 100 yards with a .50 and 70 grains would tell you something different allright. The ball went right thru the boiler room and out the other side.
Yeah, I know, it wasn't an elk... and I've never shot an elk either. I'm no expert. Just don't believe everything you read. Especially by the "experts".
 
Jethro and Rusty are correct. Always find out what the guy is selling that is being billed as an "expert"( that includes me! I am not selling anything, pride myself in basing any opinions on observed facts, have actual experience in doing original research and publishing an article in a peer reviewed magazine, and have no problem limiting my opinions.) I don't have much experience shooting the .54 cal. rifles. I have shot some loaned to me on the range by friends, but that is the extent of it. However, that .54 caliber round ball weighs 230 grains, and is larger in diameter than most modern " bullets " get to after then expand in an animal. It delivers a long, deep, primary wound channel, with some secondary tissue rupturing just from the vacuum begind that wide ball that drags air into the primary wound as it is created. It may be only going 800 feet per second at 100 yds, but it kills because of the huge hole it puts in things. A moose is not that hard an animal to kill. I would not hesitate to use a .54 cal. rifle on Moose out to 100 ydas. However, if you ask me the same question about using it on Alaskan bears, I would cut the maximum range substantially. I would also recommend using a .58, .62, .69, or .75 caliber rifle for bears. With those heavy skinned and boned animals you want the heavier weight of those larger round balls to smash through the animal and destroy vital organs. The .58 weighs about 5/8 oz; the .62 weighs 3/4 oz; the .69 weighs 1 oz, and the .75 weighs 1 1/8 oz! And remember that they are soft lead balls that also expand when they hit flesh and bone.

A .62 RB will exit the other side of a deer leaving an .80 caliber hole. That larger than the diameter of a quarter. Different rules apply in determining killing ability with these large soft projectiles than with the modern, high velocity, small diameter, jacketed wonder bullets. Both have their place; both kill, but for different reasons.

My 6.5 x 55 mm swedish mauser kills so well because it shoots a small diameter, but very long bullet, with a high ballistics Coefficient, and pretty fair sectional density. That means it keeps on going. At high speed, it drives deep, even in heavy boned animals, and its secondary wound channel is awesome. That is the one created by hydrostatic shock, caused by two shock waves, one off the nose of the bullet as it passes, and the second off the base. Both of these waves, distrupt tissues, and cause hemorrhaging around the primary wound channel for several inches. The bullets kill not because of a massive primary wound, but because so much tissue, and internal organs are damaged by the secondary wound channel.

When dealing with the writing " experts " read a lot of material, and study, study, study. The small bore vs big more fight has been going on since the 19th century brought us smokeless powder. If you let them, there are lots of fellows who will blow smoke UP your tail pipe over this subject. It pours over into questions like this, with someone invariably recommending some high speed, smaller bored load, every time, over a PRB, simply because the guy has never really spent any time using a PRB or understanding how it works to kill so well.

If you are raised on smokeless powder ballistics, ( as I was) and were taught to believe that only a small caliber high speed bullet is humane to use to hunt game animals, ( I was told it but didn't believe it) you are going to put down PRB muzzle loaders any chance you get. I have a rather disjointed education in rifles. I went from shooting a .22 rifle, to shooting my first high power rifle, which was a .45-70 trapdoor Springfield with 500 grain builets and semi-smokeless powder loads! I was about 12. The idea that those slugs could not kill anything that roams N. America, was ridiculous. I later learned the same about large caliber round balls. My first Black powder pistol was a .62 cal. smoothbore flintlock! That " pumpkin ball " did not move very fast, but did it move things it hit!
 
I have never had the pleasure of elk hunting with a .54 caliber roundball, so I really am not sure how much importance to lend to my statements.

I have shot numerous deer with a .54 caliber roundball. Most loads were only 80-90 grains of powder. Almost every deer I have shot, the ball made complete pass through even out to 80 yards. At 80 yards a roundball shot through one deer and broke the spine of a second one, knocking that down as well.

So when people tell you that a .54 caliber ball is not effective, I first wonder what they base this thought on. From all the indications I have saw with the .54 caliber, they get excellent penetration, excellent expansion, massive wound channels, and the only ball I ever recovered in numerous deer shot was when I had the double The ball was lodged against the skin on the second deer. The mushroom effect was most impressive.

This year using a .54 caliber Flintlock Lyman Trade Rifle, I shot a doe at 52 yards (range finder). Due to a lot of factors I was forced to shoot for the neck. I timed it with the deers head down, considering the possibility of missing the spine, so I wanted the ball to pass through the neck in that case, enter through the chest cavity and at least destroy some major organs. The ball broke the neck, through the chest cavity brisket, split the heart in two, travelled the length of the deer, exits and broke the rear leg just above the hoof. The deer dropped in its tracks of course, stone dead.

If it were me, I'd limit my furthest distance to 100 yards. I would be real demanding on shot placement. And I would have some faith in the little roundball after that. Good luck.
 
cayugad said:
So when people tell you that a .54 caliber ball is not effective, I first wonder what they base this thought on.

They base it on paper numbers. As Paul said, they're raised on centerfire ballistics. Paper numbers are everything to them. Velocity, energy, etc. They overlook the simple fact that a big hole takes down animals fast. Many of them even deny centerfire based proof such as done by Elmer Keith with heavy flat nosed bullets driven at moderate velocities.

Apparently since the invention of expanding bullets, nothing else works anymore. To my way of thinking, a high velocity, expanding bullet can fail. It can fail to expand or it can overexpand and shatter. A "pre expanded" projectile that is going to penetrate can't.
 
Ever since the military caused bullets to be jacketed for a number of reasons, the bullet makers "dream up" all sorts of expanding bullets in an effort to make their bullets behave like RBs. Soft lead is very plastic in nature and doesn't easily fragment so penetration and expansion are excellent. Possibly if RB velocities were higher, they might not perform as well?.....Fred
 
I have a friend who is in his eighties, ans still hunts his own woods. He has probably killed a hundred deer, either with a shotgun with slugs or a Ruger .44 "popgun" his kids gave him. He has never lost a deer, and I doubt any one of them has gone more than 50 yards, mostly they just fall over ka-boom. He has never read a ballistic table. But he gets real close and puts one shot right in the machinery. Ballistics tables ain't everything, I read too many of them as a youth Good smoke, ron in FL
 

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