Early Loads

[Flint1]

Hi all,
Does anyone have an idea on what loads early longhunters (F&I thru Rev) were using? I know it varies by caliber, but I read alot about modern loads ranging from 80g to 120g. I have also read about the evolution of the longrifle using a smaller bore to minimize powder (here I'm talking of the smaller bore being a .54 scaled down from the .62 and up of the Jaeger). I have several flintlocks I use in competition and vary the charges for different ranges, but I also have an early Va I use to complement my F&I persona, and want to develop a standard load for it. My feeling is the early hunters went into the forest using one load, not knowing if it would be used on a squirrel, deer, or an enemy. My rifle is a .54 and gets great penetration on a wooden post at 25 yards with 55g of 3f. What load should I expect to work up to, and what would the early hunters have probably used in a similar rifle? Thanks for any thoughts.
Ron

 

[bdarin]

My guess would be the load would be the maximum for accuracy, since you don't know if you're going to run into a squirrel, deer, bear, or bloodthirsty Huron. I get maximum accuracy at 90gr. with my .50 cal Hawken flinter. There is an optimum load, adding more powder doesn't necessarily mean better accuracy, it's just a waste of powder. I don't know the actual answer to your question, but this one seems like a logical conclusion (Mr. Spock would agree). :imo: :results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Early barrels were beautifully crafted, but had a seam along the bottom from where they were formed as skelps over a mandrel. Being of softer iron, they did not have the strength of modern steel barrels.

I believe Madison Grant gave 3 gr powder for every 7 gr of ball as his finding for what the old timers used. That works out to 75 gr FFg for a .50 cal. and 98 gr for a .54 cal. as full loads. I find 90 gr FFg in my .54 is well plenty enough for whitetail. I use half that for squirrels and bunnies. Even that light load hits harder at 25 yards than a .45 ACP, so I figure if a Huron jumps out when I'm expecting a cottontail I'll still be able to clean his hourglass. :haha:

 

[Wes/Tex]

From what I've seen from the few surviving powder measures, it appears most shot loads using about as many grains as bore size, e.g.: 50 grains of powder in a .50 caliber gun, etc. There's some thought that really serious social occasions were dealt with by double loading, or dumping two measures of powder. This hasn't been definitely proven "in writing" but has survived by word-of-mouth from old time shooters. Good luck.

 

The standard seems to have been a two = one ratio of lead to powder as a standard rifle load. Twice the weight of lead to powder. This is the ratio used by Lewis and Clark in their preperations and is the standard in most inventories and orders of the day. We have done threads on this before.

There is also strong evidence that half charge powder measures were common, requiring two dumps for a full charge load. Large and small game capability in one package. We have also done numerous threads on this too.

Then there is the old standard of placing the ball in your cupped palm and just barely covering it with powder. A lot of variation there but it will usually be a safe load in a good gun.

They also used a method called "kraking the rifle" to find the optimim load in a new gun. You start off with a low charge and increase the powder until the sound of the report turns from a boom to a sharp "Craaaaack", indicating that just a hint of powder is still burning as the ball leaves the bore. That was all the powder she was going to burn effectively so why keep adding more? The charge would be in proportion to the barrel length rather than the weight of the ball. Just one method of fine tuning.

Rule of thumb for pistols was half the charge as for a rifle in the same bore.

Muskets were probably diferent. I do not study them but we have some knowledgsble people here that do and they will know exactly what charge was carried in those paper cartridges. Run a search in the smoothbore section and they will appear. They discuss paper cartridges at least once per day.

:results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Something else to remember, they would not have measured in grains, but more likely drams.

Common volumes would have been:

1-1/2 Drams = 41.25 gr FFg
1-3/4 Drams = 48.125 gr FFg
2 Drams = 55 grains FFg
2-1/4 Dr = 61.875 gr FFg
2-1/2 Dr = 68.75 gr
2-3/4 Dr = 75.625 gr
3 Drams = 82.5 gr
3-1/4 Dr = 89.375 gr
3-1/2 Dr = 96.25 gr

My two most used measures are 1-1/2 Drams and 3 Drams (about 42 and 83 gr FFg) for target/small game and big game in a variety of .50 and .54 rifles.

2-3/4 and 3 Drams are still the blackpowder equivalent loads listed for 12 gauge low brass and high brass shells. And still just dandy in m/l 12 gauges loads.

I have also used the "Crack" method Ghost was describing. It seems to work best in the smaller calibers, as in the .54 after the first few shots the ringing makes it harder to tell what's happening. ::

I have heard that it was common practice for a gunsmith to include a mold and a fixed measure with the rifle. (I believe tin was often used, but I don't know how far back and I don't have a period source).

Most of the measures associated with bags in Madison Grants "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" are what we would consider "low power" loads. Whether double-shots were thrown, I can't say.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Good question Ron, details of how things were done in everyday life are often lost to history because no one at the time considered such "common knowledge" worth writing about. Dixie Gunworks catalog lists an 1896 chart of standard service loads for ML guns, presumsbly smoothbore, showing, for example, 19-21 gauge, 68 gr. powder and 7/8 oz. shot. Just like a modern 20ga. shotshell. They also list a standard military load for U.S. .54 rifles as 75gr. FFFg. There is definite historical info on military loads of the time. I expect most hunters of the time did load lighter than is common today and as some folks more knowledable than myself have mentioned, surviving powder measures tend to be rather small. I have found that 30gr are quite accurate in my .45's and 40gr. in .50cal. Surprise encounters are likely to be at close range and even these loads beat most modern cop pistols! :imo:

 

It seems that a two to one ratio of lead to powder in weight was what was usually supplied, however you had to allow for priming, spillage, etc. I think a three to one was a common load ratio. Take the common .490 ball--about 177 grs +/- a couple (from memory)of lead. Two to one would be about 89 grs and three to one would be about 59 grs of powder. I think 60 grs is closer to the old loads than 90. We tend to overcharge these days. That said, I typically shoot 70 grs in my rifle with a .490 ball. :m2c:

 

[blyne]

Somewhere I heard that the old timers would shoot from the prone position when snow was on and they'd continue to add powder every shot until they found unburned powder on the snow in front of them and then drop like 5 or 10 grains off that amount of powder. Cant quite remember exactly. Has anyone heard of that?

 

[roundball]

Somewhere I heard that the old timers would shoot from the prone position when snow was on and they'd continue to add powder every shot until they found unburned powder on the snow in front of them and then drop like 5 or 10 grains off that amount of powder. Cant quite remember exactly. Has anyone heard of that?

I've often wondered if that was another old wives tale...no doubt there would be stuff scattered on the snow but it seems to me the 3-4 feet of flame from the muzzle flash would finish consuming any unburned powder particles, leaving only the black BP residue particles falling to the ground...

:m2c:

 

[rabjr]

In the book The Art of building a Pennsylvania Longrifle there is a pic thats a drawing of a prone shooter with the caption, "test fireing in the snow". Just a pic, nothing else is said.

 

[C_Laubach]

Early barrels were beautifully crafted, but had a seam along the bottom from where they were formed as skelps over a mandrel. Being of softer iron, they did not have the strength of modern steel barrels.

I believe Madison Grant gave 3 gr powder for every 7 gr of ball as his finding for what the old timers used. That works out to 75 gr FFg for a .50 cal. and 98 gr for a .54 cal. as full loads. I find 90 gr FFg in my .54 is well plenty enough for whitetail. I use half that for squirrels and bunnies. Even that light load hits harder at 25 yards than a .45 ACP, so I figure if a Huron jumps out when I'm expecting a cottontail I'll still be able to clean his hourglass. :haha:

Stump,
Forge welded barrels do not have a seam. If you can see a seam than you don