Dutch Schoultz System

[paulvallandigham]

If you only read the material once, you have learned very little. Very few people return the information to Dutch, but he offers a Money back Guarantee.

The people you have been talking to have either learned what they know, and shared with you from Dutch's materials, or from someone who has learned from Dutch's materials. You will not find better information on how to adjust your groups, and diagnose your mistakes by simply reading your patches, than in Dutch's materials. I have read the stuff at least 5 times, and I am still learning more every time I read through it.

No, I don't need to read how to make a ramrod or short starter every time, but the diagnostic material is PURE GOLD. When I am using my chronograph to do load development, I still find and examine each patch, so that when something happens that give me a strange reading on the chronograph, the patch will tell me what exactly did happen!

I am sorry you did not not learn more from his material. :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

well after obtaining my first traditional rifle and shooting patch round balls.

You obtained your "first traditional rifle and shooting patch round balls", and you learned nothing from Dutch's system?

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I'm happy with Dutch's system. To me it was worth the money. I don't do everything according to his system but I understand how it works. Reading his notes made me get my rifle out and experiment more.

Unless you're just happy pouring powder and ball down the barrel and having it come back out with a lot of smoke, I'd say buy it. GW

 

[douglas duncan]

I look at it in a different prospective than you do. like I said if you can relate this to reloading then you are on your way. to understanding the aspects that happen when you change something. I'm very diligent to when I reload for my metallic cartridges. the same has to be done with a muzzle loader.
talking to people just like you is also where one can obtain information :thumbsup:

 

I have also found that shooting a muzzle loader and reloading metallic cartridge's is basically the same.

I'm not sure how "dry patch" and swabbing between shots relates to reloading metal cartridges, but then you appear to way ahead of us, for someone just starting out.

I am also returning his information packet back to him.

I know Mr. Schoultz offers a guaranty, but frankly, I'd be embarrassed to return a book after I read it all the way through, saying, "yeah, I already knew all that". But everybody is different.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I have made a great improvement in my shooting skills I contest that I can make the almighty clover leaf group with a round ball.

Clover leaf?
What happened to the other two shots in your five shot string?
:haha:
You see with Dutch and pritty much anybody elce who is a serious shooter five shot groups is the norm.
You can learn a lot more from five shots that three.
Three shot groups is for Magizine writers, writing up on their favorite new bullet they want you to buy.
I still go back and reread Dutch's work because with all that info your bound to forget somthing.
:thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

You see with Dutch and pritty much anybody elce who is a serious shooter five shot groups is the norm.

Truer words never spoken (written?). I like to shoot a 10 shot group to get a true picture.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't want to get started here defending gun writers, but If I recall correctly, the 3-shot groups were done initially to just TEST whether a particular Bullet would group well out of a particular Barrel with a particular ROT rifling.

The 5-shot test was done to get a better picture of the powder charge/bullet combination.

The 10-shot groups were fired to test the shooter's ability, particular in Off-hand shooting.

I think over the years, Gun Writers, and others have forgotten these reasons for such tests. Today's bullets are usually so consistent( unless home cast) that there is no need for a 3-shot test group, unless its to test a given bullet in a new barrel with a different Rate Of Twist.

Some of the old gunwriters still stick to these standards, so that when they write about testing a new rifle in a caliber they have shot, and reloaded for many years, they usually write something like, "I grabbed a favorite handload-X- that I have found over the years works well in a lot of my rifles of the same caliber.". Then they shoot a 3, and sometimes a 5 shot group, Deciding to increase the number from 3 to 5 based on whether the new gun seems to be shooting the ammo better than average for their own guns.

There are certain writers, and gun magazines that are more technically oriented, such as Handloader, and Rifle, and the American Rifleman's Technical column. There are others, focusing on specific classes of shooters, like target shooters. If you are looking for really good information on loading MLers, its few and far between, but I have read more good "stuff " in Muzzle Blasts", particular in the column written by the Bevel Brothers, than in MuzzleLoader. I like Muzzleloader for the historical articles and the trekking articles it has. :thumbsup:

 

[douglas duncan]

the other two went through where the first three went. You have to look closley to see where the ball just touched.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

There are certain writers, and gun magazines that are more technically oriented, such as Handloader, and Rifle, and the American Rifleman's Technical column.

I agree with you on handloader etc...
I of coarse feel that the sun sets and rises on Mike Veritino's reloading info...
I was under the impession that the three shot groups orignated because the heating of the barrel caused stringing and to get consistant five shot groups you need to let your barrel cool down on high power rifles which take a lot of time.
At least this is what I have to do and was told to do but much wiser and older reloaders than I.
There fore when writing an article for your typical hunting mag a three shot group became the norm.
That being said I have seen lately, a trend back to the five shot groups in hunting mags.
:thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

the other two went through where the first three went. You have to look closley to see where the ball just touched.

sweet
:thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

Methinks it's all about the amount of time and resources any writer is willing to expend in order to come to their pre ordained conclusion. That conclusion of course based upon the amount of advertising dollars expended by the manufacturer of the item being tested. :haha:

I like Venturino too. Notice that he is rarely hawking components :shocked2:

 

[paulvallandigham]

When thin, " sporter " barrels came on the seen, the writers began using the 3-shot test for those barrels, because they do heat up and begin throwing bullets out of the group. They won't or don't take the time between shots to let it cool down. I don't know why that is, as it was never the intent of the manufacturer to give the shooter he could fire rapid fire, with high velocity ammo, without paying the price of the thin barrel over heating. When they shoot larger sized barrel guns, they seem willing to take their time during the accuracy tests, cooling the barrel for a minute between shots.

I long ago figured out which gunwriters were worth reading, and who was not. I also have learned to dislike editors, who continue to hire these guys who write this suck-up-to- the-advertiser- garbage-and-short-change-the-readers.

 

[renovato]

Paul is right about the writers who suck up to advertisers. To see what happens when a writer publishes honest experiences that annoy an advertiser, look up Dean Speir. I had an interesting conversation with him about 10 years back. He got sacked for writing the truth.

 

[akapennypincher]

Dutch use to offer a $ back guarantee. How can you go wrong.

 

[mike alexandre]

Steelerzzz. Yes Dutches ystem is worth the $15, you have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. At the end of his instructions you may end up adopting all or part of his system but one things for sure you will have learnt a lot about how to work out what your rifle/s needs to make them work well.

 

[steelerzzz]

Steelerzzz. Yes Dutches ystem is worth the $15, you have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. At the end of his instructions you may end up adopting all or part of his system but one things for sure you will have learnt a lot about how to work out what your rifle/s needs to make them work well.

Thanks Mike..that kind of summarizes the issue..my money is in the mail!

 

[traceywalker]

Spent my weekend in a yardage shop with my micrometer checking compressed thickness of patching material. Getting ready for the weekend.
Had a couple of very interesting e-conversations with Dutch. Very knowledgeable guy. His system is worth many times the asking price in terms of avoiding frustration alone.
Enjoy
Rangertrace--

 

[JohnnyO]

Spent my weekend in a yardage shop with my micrometer checking compressed thickness of patching material. Getting ready for the weekend.
Had a couple of very interesting e-conversations with Dutch. Very knowledgeable guy. His system is worth many times the asking price in terms of avoiding frustration alone.
Enjoy
Rangertrace--

same here, just received his system, posted what I noticed about pre-cut patches in another thread...some .015 were actually .013 and compressed to .011...
I also had pleasant conversations with Dutch and he seems like he'd quickly answer any question you'd have...that alone is worth more than $15 :hatsoff: