Drilling a Barrel For Fasteners

[Thebeancounter]

I have a 45 caliber 35 inch Green Mountain barrel and need to come up with a way to attach a forestock.

I would rather not pin it because I want to be able to disassemble things for cleaning.

The barrel is a 1/18 twist and I intend to shoot conicals with it. Seems to me that this will add up to a fair amount of pressure so I want to be safe.

The barrel is 1.27 inches and weighs a ton. How much metal do I need to be safe - very safe?

I could drill and tap it, but need to know a safe drill depth. Or silver solder a nut to the barrel and then use a machine screw to hold the forestock. Also thought about silversoldering a hunk of metal that I could drill and tap in order to attach forestock.

Another idea was to use an under rib and attach the pipes and forestock to it. Still need to attach the under rib with screws.

Looks like I have almost .4125" of metal to work with. My initial thought was to drill half the distance.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
- Bill

 

[bitehard]

Hi Beancounter. With that thickness of wall the simple ans; you choose. It would be a little different if it was a 7/8" barrel. What are you building?

 

[ol vern]

Why not use keys?

You have plenty of barrel thickness,just dovetale in three underlugs and slot them for keys.

Much easer to push a key out than fool with screws.

 

[bioprof]

I'd dovetail underlugs on it and install keys for easy barrel removal. I wouldn't screw the stock to the barrel because metal and wood expand at different rates. There's too much of a chance that the wood would crack over time.

Whoops. Ol' Vern beat me to it.

 

[Bill Hall]

If you're looking for easy disassmbly, then I agree that keys are the best way to go, especially with a hooked breech. I just wanted to add that you could also use staples to hold the keys. I make mine out of nails and drill half the barrel thickness to install them. Saves alot of filing. Just another idea. Bill

 

[Thebeancounter]

I am building an underhammer that will be used for whitetail.

Sometimes I am a little thick. I want to make sure I understand. You guys are recommending an underrib that will be nearly as long as the barrel with the pipes and forestock attached to it. I need to make dovetails to attach the underrib to the barrel. If the forestock wraps around the underrib and part of the barrel then I will need to pin the forestock to the rib. Alternatively, I could drill an tap the rib and attach the forestock with machine screws... right?

Thanks for the advice,
Bill

 

[Birddog6]

I wouldn't silver solder it on. You have to get the barrel too hot & then take a chance of bore shrinkage (been there done that)
With a barrel that size you could put any dovetail depth you want there, Install a dovetailed lug & peen it, stake it, or soft solder the lug if desired, then retain the forestock with a screw. That would be easy to take on & off & fit the styling of the underhammer.
:thumbsup:

 

[bitehard]

What I have done with the underhammers that I have built is to cut 2 dovetails under the barrel. Make 2 pipes that slide into the dovetail and are then swaged into place. the choice is then yours as to whether you drill and thread a hole to hold a screw to hold the forend on or drill a lateral small hole to accept a cross pin to hold the forend on. Both ways work well and hold the forend which really only just rests in place to be rested upon when in use. I rarely take the forends off to clean : I use the hose methode in the nipple. To stop the barrel from rusting after I have put the finnish on [blued/brown] I then wax it with candle or bees wax. Your local engineer with a mill can cut the dovetails for you on the barrel and you will be able to make the fittings. I hope I have explained myself well enough as to what I do so that a ramrod can be carried with ease while out hunting.

 

[mazo kid]

I'd dovetail underlugs on it and install keys for easy barrel removal. I wouldn't screw the stock to the barrel because metal and wood expand at different rates. There's too much of a chance that the wood would crack over time.Whoops. Ol' Vern beat me to it.

Good advise! Are you making a full stock? If so, use the dovetailed lugs and keys and traditional ramrod pipes and groove in the forestock. If a half stock, then you can fasten the under rib with screws, still using the under-lug/key arrangement for holding the barrel to the stock. Use a bottoming tap and cut maybe 4-5 threads, in the ~1/8" deep or slightly less hole....you don't need much to hold the ramrod on. Depending on length of rib, 3-4 screws will suffice.

 

[Metalshaper]

here are two examples I have done.. FWIW??

Neither of these guns have a rib out on the barrel. The forward pipes were 'soft' soldered directly to the barrel's bottom flat. the box frame only has a tube/ramrod holder at the rear.. the lil carbine a pinned forearm.< with duel pewter pours! :grin: >

as far as the barrels goes?? on the carbine, you can loosen the three set screws and change to whatever barrel you have and want to bother fitting up!! The Box frame has a taper pin, down through the frame..

I make my own"staples" from nails ( as was mentioned previously ) even made a mod to a drill press vise, so I get the bends uniform for each size. smaller ones, when I plan to pin.. slightly larger for wedges!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[Metalshaper]

oh and my 4% silver bearing solder,, melts/flows at 450 F,, so it doesn't really heat the barrel up too much??

also FWIW??

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[Metalshaper]

oh and my 4% silver bearing solder,, melts/flows at 450 F,, so it doesn't really heat the barrel up too much??

also FWIW??

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[Thebeancounter]

Thanks for all of the good advice. You all have given me something to think about. The gun is not a full stock. The lock came from Deer Creek and is a casting that looks like a piece of pipe. A similar one was posted here.

 

[Metalshaper]

Thanks for all of the good advice. You all have given me something to think about. The gun is not a full stock. The lock came from Deer Creek and is a casting that looks like a piece of pipe. A similar one was posted here.

BC,

My guns are all hand made. < If that wasn't already obvious enough :rotf: > just kinda build them as I/we go.. with the help and prodding of my Buddy Marlow!! we even machine and bend the frames in His shop! On mine,,we then machine them to take an insert/lock-works.. as I never cared for the H&A style with the big pins or screws through them??

I'll be interested in following your progress!!


Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you wrap a wet rag around the barrel on both sides of the location where you are going to solder the pipes, you limit the affect of any heating of the barrel, and have Heat SINKS that keep the rest of the barrel from over heating, and bending. At most, you might see some steam rise off the wet rag- but that simply means the wet rag is doing its job, in controlling how far the heat spreads on the barrel. The pipe itself acts as a heat sink, as do the pliers or vise grips you use to hold the pipe to the barrel when soldering.

It should NOT require High temperature solder to hold a ramrod pipe to the barrel. Unless you twist the RR when its not yet entered the stock area, its next to impossible to break a pipe away from the barrel using low temperature solder. Most of the weight of a ramrod is taken by the forestock. The pipe(s) serves merely as a guide to help you put the RR into the forestock.

Soldering technique can also make a difference in how much heat the barrel receives. Tin both the pipe and the barrel with solder, first, and then clamp the two together. If you apply the heat then to the pipe, rather than to the barrel directly, the two tinned areas will heat up enough to melt and fuse together without heating the barrel up very much at all. You get a neater job of soldering, and a more thorough bonding of the two metals. :hatsoff:

 

[Thebeancounter]

Thanks. The posts here scared me enough to take the dove tail route.I have heard about the wet rag trick when talking to guys doing body work.

I want to choose my battles and I think this might take me into the "advanced topics category". I understand dovetails.

Really appreciate the help and guidance.

- Bill

 

[blafen]

How do you think JB weld would work for holding a RR pipe to a barrel?

 

[Zonie]

I wouldn't use JB Weld in that application.

Even on a totally clean, oil free surface it's bonding (adhering strength) would be limited by the smooth surfaces of the parts.

Although it has a Tensile strength of 3960 PSI, that is the strength needed to pull a piece of it apart. It is not the adhesive bonding strength which is dependent on surface roughness, cleanness, and the types of materials being bonded.

At least that's my thoughts on it.

 

[Bill Hall]

I second what Zonie says. I JB welded a rib to a barrel once as a temporary fix to an unfinished rifle, just so I could sight it in and take it hunting. Later, when it was time to remove it and do it right, one very light smack with a piece of wood popped the rib off clean. I was surprised it stayed on through all that shooting. You need some kind of mechanical anchor (i.e. holes, undercuts, grooves)in both pieces for JB weld to really work. Bill

 

[Thebeancounter]

I called the wizards at the machine shop and we are going the dovetail route. I'll see then Tuesday morning before work and sketch the job out.

Thanks again for all of the advice.