Double Barrel, black powder, no markings?

[sunshinetlb]

Hello, not sure how to post photos yet, but we have a black powder , double barrel, vintage shotgun and need to find its value. it has under the wooden part on the barrel marking like roman numerals? NUmber of kills? year it was made?? not sure... thanks for any help.. Sunshine :surrender:

 

With all due respect, you said the equivalent of "I've got a car with 4 wheels, how much is it worth?" :wink:

 

[nhmoose]

Pics can help

 

[Nativearizonan]

There are people here that can walk you through posting pictures. If you can get digital photos to your home or office computer, you can use photobucket.com:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/287747/

So much of the value of an old unmarked shotgun is going to be condition, how well it was made, and how good it looks. I can tell none of those things by reading your post.

A real rough, falling apart, ugly one might be in the $50-60

A stunningly beautiful, pristine one showing considerable artistic ability and fine wood, might bring a few thousand.

 

[Nativearizonan]

The markings under the barrel may be proof markings that could give you some hint as to where and when it was made. Clear, legible photos of them would be very helpful, and some of the folks here may recognize them.

 

[Nativearizonan]

One question, though, that your post did not answer. You say it is a black powder shotgun. Is it a muzzle loading black powder shotgun or a breech loading one? If it is a breech loading one, meaning you can open the breech with a lever and look through the barrels from back to front, you are at the wrong forum. We don't discuss those.

 

[nit wit]

It's vintage man!I hate that mis-used term.
Nit Wit

 

[sunshinetlb]

Okay everyone, first I am sorry for misusing words, not knowing how to fit in, again that is why I am a newbie and said so. This gun is my dad's and he wanted to know what the value may be. I do not know much about it, and he doesn't know how to use a computer, so we are trying to do the best we can.. :bow: :idunno:

on that note: I have uploaded photos to photobucket and will now try to post them for you all that are willing to teach me about this gun and explain it to me so that I can become better at this.

Muzzleloader is the gun, Daniel boon special is also a name I heard it called. :thumbsup:

Thank you to those that went out of your way to help me so far... Sunch lets see if this works.. here is the link to my photos? or the image itself.. I will post more photos if this works..

]Link[/url]

 

[sunshinetlb]

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[sunshinetlb]

http://s1024.photobucket.com/user/sunshinetlb72/slideshow/ I made the album public so you all can see all the photos? will this help ?

thanks again Sunch

 

[sunshinetlb]

I don't know how to take it apart again to see them? is it easy to take apart?

 

[Lorne Johnson]

If you pull (or push) that wedge out of the fore end, you can lift out the barrels, which are hooked into the receiver. There will likely be proof marks on the barrel flats or under side of the barrels. ELG in an oval means it, or the barrels, were made in Belgium (fairly likely) Birmingham proof marks are harder to describe, but involve crossed swords.

But, it looks like barn gun that may have been assembled on this side of the ocean. The inletting is pretty crude.

 

[Nativearizonan]

There is a wedge that holds the barrel on, a few inches ahead of the trigger. It's easy to see in the photos. That passes through a fitting that is soldered to the barrel. Put the hammers on half-cock (pull them back until you hear the first click), then remove the wedge by pushing it from the left side of the gun (pointed away from you, like you are going to shoot) toward the right side. I should come right out, but may have to be tapped on, gently, with something that fits in the hole but contacts the wedge. Be careful not to damage the stock any further. It has already been messed up some. Once the wedge is removed, you should be able to lift both barrels up and out of the stock, away from the hammers.

You really should take that gun to have someone look at it. If you have any way of showing who owned the gun historically, that would help a lot.

It looks like it was a pretty cheap shotgun for the period it was built in, but is a nice looking primitive, at least. Thankfully no one has taken a wire brush to it, or ground on it or sanded the stock or something stupid like that. It has the nice patina of age.

 

[hawkeye2]

Your very clear photos are a big help, now if you could find some markings somewhere. It's an average muzzleloading double, likely post Civil War and was a plain working gun. You might have a gunsmith familiar with black powder guns examine it and if it is shootable that would be a plus. Most old doubles are in deplorable condition but this one is complete, clean and the metal isn't rusted or pitted badly. It really has very little value and I would consider hanging it on the wall before selling it for what it would bring. It would only be valuable if it were a very good condition double by a well known maker but this is probably a Belgian or English gun made to be sold by hardware chains in the U. S. at a price to apeal to frugal farmers.

My thoughts on the inleting job is that possibly a smith restocked it to replace a badly broken stock and did a quick and serviceable job as even back in its working life the gun wouldn't have justified spending a lot of money for repairs. There would have been a wood screw in the notch at the back of each lock to hold it in if the stock was original.

 

[galamb]

Agree with hawkeye2 here.

The back action locks suggest it is "no older" then the 1850's at best.

The locks or stock may have been replaced OR a gun builder with "less then perfect" skills built it.

The lack of proof marks on the barrels "strongly suggests" that this is not an English or Belgian built gun (they may be hidden underneath, but are often in plain view with the gun assembled in it's normal operating condition).

The one thing that strikes me as "slightly odd" is the washer on the screw holding the hammer to the lock. I don't recall seeing that on an "original vintage lock" (not saying they weren't used, just can't find a pic of one).

Because of that, plus the lack of even the slightest engraving on the locks, trigger guard (from what I can see) and the lack of visible proof marks - I would not be "totally surprised" if this gun was built as late as the 1960's or 70's...

 

[nhmoose]

In response to sunch not above

Genuine ML shotgun! Welcome

You need to get it checked by a black powder gunsmith before trying to shoot.

Under the barrels may have stampings to help identify the country made in. I bet Belgium many made ther settled this country Nice Find.

 

[Gene L]

I'd like to see the right side of the lock, too. Could be notch in the back lock on the left side once was a hole for a screw, the inletting possibly indicates that as it goes behind the lock plate by a bit.

 

[frogwalking]

These old back action guns normally had a through bolt just behind the barrels and a wood screw just behind the lockplate with the flat head overlapping the plate and holding it in place. If, as it appears, there are no screw holes at the notch in the lock plate then this is definitely a replacement stock. The stock looks like it may be pine. These things normally have European walnut stocks.

 

[sunshinetlb]

THANK YOU EVERYONE. I appreciate the time and effort you took to reply and try to help me. I will try to do as you say and get photos of the barrel and the markings. It may take me a few days to get to it but I will and post some other photos.

Thanks again...

 

[sunshinetlb]

]Link[/url]
Okay so the number that are stamped are 3562 and the roman numbers that are hand mark above by are X V IIII then down a ways II II like 4 more marks ..

any ideas ? thanks so much.. you all have been a big help already.