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DOM Tubing that being used for barrels

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roundball

Cannon
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http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/hrsteel2.phtml?page=rndtube&LimAcc=$LimAcc


Steel Round Tube
________________________________________
Ӣ WORKABILITY - Drawn Over Mandrel is a cold drawn electric resistance welded tube with all flash removed.

Ӣ APPLICATIONS - Farm implements, construction equipment, racecar frames, motorcycle frames, automotive parts, off-road accessories, etc
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a very simplified version.A more detailed description is available on the Steel Tubing Institute of N America site.Not trying to nit pick but I thought a professional description might be in order.
 
Just a comment or two as I am not expert in barrel steel or fabrication. Previous discussions seem to lump all DOM barrels together. I am not sure we know that all India-made guns use the same tubing, or that all DOM barrels offered here are made from the same stock. I have seen DOM barrels with no visible seam, and some have a readily visible seam.

Back in the day we always proofed our barrels. That has fallen to the wayside.
 
charlie said:
This is a very simplified version.A more detailed description is available on the Steel Tubing Institute of N America site.Not trying to nit pick but I thought a professional description might be in order.
All I did was post the link and sub-titles, assuming folks could:
A) Go to the link and read more information;
B) Follow the approach and Google other sites as they desired;

Bottom line I don't have a dog in this fight, and don't personally care what equipment others choose to use...just seemed that the thread needed the benefit of some actual real data so I simply Googled, and posted a link to one of many sites that popped up.

You should post whatever link you're referring to that you think is better...makes no difference to me personally as I don't happen to use those barrels.
 
Bottom line I don't have a dog in this fight, and don't personally care what equipment others choose to use...just seemed that the thread needed the benefit of some actual real data so I simply Googled, and posted a link to one of many sites that popped up.

Good for you. :thumbsup: I'm glad you did this. But, for those who are getting their jollies bashing someone and ranting about a subject they know little to nothing about, it won't matter a bit.
 
Roundball, do you have any sites handy for the stats on seamless tubing? Back in the late sixties I worked for a small aircraft hydraulics company and we made cylinders from a tubing that was made by piercing and rolling a solid bar into heavy walled tubes. I made several barrels from some of it and they were very strong barrels.I would proof them with a triple powder/shot charge and never detected any bulging measuring to .0001 inch. I wish I had more of them but the company was sold and I lost my source of the stock. I do remember that it had to be special ordered and took about six months to get. :idunno:
 
Sure don't...I know nothing about the specifics of so called DOM barrels and as a result have no solid footing to say much about them pro or con.
I did take a little issue with the wording that was attributed to an Email quote from JB himself as it seemed a little self-serving, but beyond that, I have nothing.
Which is why I turned to Google and started a new thread in hopes that some folks might start looking deeper themselves rather than just arguing generalities.

I think way too much caustic attitude gets displayed in these forums towards folks who choose a different path...personally, I couldn't care less if somebody wants to use a toilet paper tube for a pistol barrel LOL.
But when someone goes to the trouble of asking specific serious questions to try and learn something...whether its about a 'Firestorm', a 'vent liner', or a 'DOM tube' for a barrel...as a fraternity we really need to try and help / answer an original poster's questions when they ask them...and not barge in with unsolicited, unwelcome, unpleasant caustic attitudes about using such things at all.

Bad behavior derails threads, causes bad blood, makes members start drifitng away to other forums, and tarnishes the reputation of the MLF to members and lurkers who watch this childish stuff go on...its actually been laughed about on other forums.


Now returning to our regularly scheduled programming...
 
Try "the steel tubing institute of north america"site an whole lot of technical info there.
 
charlie said:
Try "the steel tubing institute of north america"site an whole lot of technical info there.

This is the second time you've said this to us but you keep refusing to post the link...why is that ??

:hmm:
 
Their DOM page comes up as "Not Found" the 2 times I tried to get there....

Worked the 3rd time.
Not as much detail as I would have liked to see. Most of it is basic descriptions...
 
For what it is worth, DOM tubing is commonly called "seamless" tubing although it does have a seam running the length of it.

As those of you who followed the links or found other information on the web know it is actually welded tubing.
Following the weld, the tubing is forced (drawn) over and thru dies which smooth the surfaces.

The reason for putting the welded tubing thru the drawing process is to smooth out the weld joint and to size the tubing so it conforms to the surface requirements of various tube specs like AMS5560, MIL-T-8504, MIL-T-8606 etc.

This drawing process by the way will cover or hide faults and inclusions present in the weld joint by smearing adjacent metal over the potential problem.
DOM tubing has no testing done to determine if a weld joint flaw exists.

This drawing process is important if the tubing is going to be used with standard tube fittings which require a smooth, uniform surface to provide sealing. This is especially important with compression fittings.

Drawing tubing over and thru dies does improve the mechanical strength of the material by work hardening it. This is most noticeable with the non-heat treatable austenitic stainless steels but some degree of improvement in the low carbon steels is also seen.

Speaking of steels the most common material for DOM tubing is SAE 1020 a low carbon steel often used for "angle iron" and flat stock. Stronger steels with more carbon in them are available as are various alloy steels like "Chrome Moly".
(The potential problem with these is they all look alike. The buyer must obtain the Certification Sheets along with the tubing in order to be certain they have the material they need.)

Without this drawing process there is virtually no difference between a 1018 DOM tubing and plain steel water pipe if one ignores the galvanizing that water pipes have.

My reason for mentioning water pipes is because they typify the low pressure applications most DOM tubing is designed for.

Yes, some DOM tubing is designed to be used in systems with pressures up to 4,000 PSI and higher but if one reads the specs they will find that these high pressures are static pressures, reached gradually by, for instance, turning on a valve.
They are not the same kind of pressures as the explosive pressures produced by the explosion of black powder.

I should mention that there is REAL seamless tubing which is made by forcing hot steel (or other metals) thru dies.
This real seamless tubing has no welds so it is fully as strong as if it were machined out of a piece of bar stock.

It is used in critical applications where failures due to pressure could be catastrophic. Think nuclear reactors and submarines.

This REAL seamless tubing is usually made from high strength alloy steels, stainless steels and exotics like Inconel625, Inconel718, Waspaloy, Titanium etc.

Because of the critical nature of its uses it undergoes extensive testing ranging from ultrasonic to X-Ray.

Our problem as gun builders with the real seamless tubing is it is almost impossible to find in small amounts and it is Extremely Expensive.


Some have mentioned that the old rifle/smoothbore barrels were all welded and asked what is the difference?
Without making this post much longer than it is I will mention that the old barrels were made from wrought iron which welds differently.
The weld joint was a "scarfed" weld joint with more surface area being fused together rather than a butt weld with minimal surface areas being joined.

Not last, but definitely not least is the fact that ALL of those old barrels required proof testing and many of them, even after undergoing and passing their proof test ended up exploding and maiming or killing the guns owner.
 
That was one of the best and most informative psts on the topic, havimg said that does the description of DOM tubing suggest that it is suitable for the pressure spikes aquired in the used of a ML gun barrel, usually there are disclaimers with many materials as to their usage in manners of which they were not specificaly made for how does DOM tubing and gun barrels fit in this scheme of things or would one have to contact a maker of DOM tubing it seems that that would put an end to the debate of an answer could be given by the manufcature some things are not warrented due to the lack of control of useage by the manufactures, I do not care for it for other reasons which could be addressed with a bit more labor but it would be interesting what the manufacture says about the use in barrels if they know the spike pressures at work and the wall thickness when these pressures are applied, seems like a lot more would be accomplished than a lot of ^%ing back and forth about "they'er OK".... "they'er not OK" 5 or 6 times a year
 
Based on my years in Manufacturing and Design Engineering I feel confident in saying that the tubing manufacturer and the tubing supplier (usually two different companies) will both be willing to certify that the tubing meets whatever requirement is required by the tubing and material specifications.

They both will refuse to be responsible for the engineering and designs in which their tubing will be used.

A few may be found that would be willing to review designs and make recommendations but even these will come with disclaimers.
It is up to the products engineer to determine the design and the materials that will be used in his/her design and they must take full responsibility for their decisions.

As I've posted many times before, I would not use DOM for any working firearm and I have suggested to the few people on this forum that if they do use DOM tubing they should warn the potential buyer that it is made from this material.
Knowing that most if not all of them are not capable of doing the engineering analysis needed I often suggest that before selling their DOM gun they make it inoperable.

I am not saying that with the correct selection of a high strength steel and an appropriate wall thickness a barrel made from DOM tubing will fail but with the availability of good solid bar being what it is I personally feel this is one corner that should not be cut in the interest of making a profit.
 
The Barrel that I have on my Smoothbore has what appears to be 4 either Seams or very Shallow Grooves.

Can anyone explain why there would be 4 as compared to 1 if this is a Seamless Tubing/DOM Barrel?
 
Llewlnman said:
Can anyone explain why there would be 4 as compared to 1 if this is a Seamless Tubing/DOM Barrel?
Just looking at your description on its face, it strikes me there's really another question that can be asked first:

If it's "Seamless Tubing", seems like the first question would be why are their seams at all...before wondering why are there 4 seams instead of 1 seam.
:hmm:
 
"I am not saying that with the correct selection of a high strength steel and an appropriate wall thickness a barrel made from DOM tubing will fail but with the availability of good solid bar being what it is I personally feel this is one corner that should not be cut in the interest of making a profit"

I do not think one can ask for a more factual and sensable point of view, which omits the meanngless emotional and financial factors involved, but people as we are will gravitate towards something if an advantage of some sort is percieved inspite of any potential hazard iof that hazrad has yet to happen or the potential of said hazard be made public, we basicaly have no manufacture giving a green light to the use for gun barrels and we also habe no damaged DOM barrels known to date that are a result of the material not being sufficient for this useage,Zonies take is the only one so far that attacks this from a typical industry type methodology.
 

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