Design choices for fouling control?

[Canuck Bob]

If you were to spec out a rifle for the best possible fouling control with patched balls what would it be? Light to medium loads for accuracy and including ease of loading.

Caliber?
Twist?
Rifling style?
Barrel length?
Etc.?

 

[coloradoclyde]

The factors listed in my opinion are of little importance.. and significance regarding fouling...

I would take a different approach.

Historically the issue was dealt with by changing lube, projectile design, and powder formulation.

Are you trying to build a special purpose gun?

 

[BrownBear]

Round bottom rifling.

 

[Canuck Bob]

The factors listed in my opinion are of little importance.. and significance regarding fouling...

I would take a different approach.

Historically the issue was dealt with by changing lube, projectile design, and powder formulation.

Are you trying to build a special purpose gun?

Just starting to look at a possible rifle for next winter. It will be a retirement gift for targets and plinking only. Trying to find the design that shoots well but is economical to shoot. My powder will be Goex as that is available here. I am going to try Dutch's lube system.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The smaller the caliber, the more economical to shoot....(less powder and lead, smaller patches too)
fouling can be solved by wiping between shots.

Myself, I would choose a .36, .40 or .45 (my preference)
They are easier to clean and load than smaller calibers and cheaper to shoot than larger calibers...

Casting your own balls, making your own patches, lube, flints and cleaning solvents...brings the price of shooting down to pennies.

It's a DIY sport. :grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Round bottom rifling.

That's about all I can come up with.

Carbide-die swaged/smoothed rifling vs. just cut perhaps? L.C. Rice does this to smooth the rifling and remove tool chatter marks. Hand lapping would be the alternative.

I don't see where caliber or twist would favor one over another for fouling. Get a .54 so you only have to shoot it once. ;-)

Another choice is a smoothbore. ;-)

 

[tenngun]

Faster twist gives more place for fouling to go, so there is less per inch, but it’s not enough to notice. Round bottom swabs easier, fiber powder works a little better, but not enough to really notice. Wipe between shots works best. You can shoot all day.

 

[stubshaft]

.58 caliber, 3 groove 1 in 66" rifling using 45grs. 3F behind a .562 ball in .015" patch lubed with tallow. I can shoot this all day without swabbing the barrel.

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

After many years of shooting Pedersoli guns, I finally obtained a TVM Iron Pennsylvania rifle end 2016. 42" swamped barrel - round bottom groove - 45 cal.
It shoots very accurate in off hand competition. I load it with 45 grains Swiss nr. 2 black powder (fffg) - a .445 ball dry patched (Dutch Schoultz system) wit a '020 Jeff Tanner patch. Powder and ball weighed, ball weight kept within 0,1 grain tolerance for every shooting batch. One swipe down and up with a moderately damp patch (alcohol) between each shot to maintain barrel condition ... Always very aware of shooting principles (same stance, breath control, trigger control, follow through etc.) ... All those things helped me enough to come to the point that I am asked to enter for the pre-selections for the Nationals ... Not bragging ... just summing up alle the factors that got me to this point.
This load (45 grains) and caliber make it quit affordable shooting, while the caliber is good for the 50 meters and 100 meters competition. Top bonus on alle this: the swamped barrel with round bottom groove cleans like a dream ! I would come tot the same choice of gun any time, and regret that I did not do so much sooner!

 

[Dr5x]

You tell a great story..
What surprises me but don't doubt is the lightness of your powder charge.. For both my .45's I required 73 grains of 2Æ’Æ’ Goex..
You might want to take a compressed measurement of your patching material so that when you restock you get the exact same thing.

I wonder if you took the same care of details back when you were shooting the Pedersoli rifles?


I love to see people get the results that come from being careful about the details.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Larry Akers]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned powder. Some powders shoot cleaner than others. For instance, powders that have no, or little, graphite glazing will be much cleaner than those that are glazed. So, in addition to experimenting with ball and patch size, lube, rifling style and twist, powder charge, you can look at brands of powder.

 

[Skychief]

You may find a 40 caliber with shallow rifling to be the ticket. Even easier to manage would be a smoothbore. A gun without a patent breech is more of a straight forward design from a cleaning standpoint. My easiest guns to clean are flintlocks with no patent breech. Quick and easier compared to others, though none are much hassle.

I've not owned a round groove rifle, but sounds like they are quicker to clean than squared rifling.

I think you've got a lot of good replies.

Best of luck with your choice.

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[Rifleman1776]

fiber powder

Uh? What's that? :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

You may find a 40 caliber with shallow rifling to be the ticket. Even easier to manage would be a smoothbore.

He did ask about a rifle.
But, in this game, what you gain someway means losing something another way. Smaller bore means more weight. One must balance what you want with what will work for you.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I wrote this up on a different forum. The following is a copy paste. This is focused on shooting my 54 Deerstalker with a start to tuning a rifle and load. One thing, my possible gun types include a lefty 24 or 28 gauge HBC late flintlock trade gun so smoothbore is on the table. However I do love rifles and consider myself a rifleman first. I'm researching Trade rifles as well and found a Lancaster school imitated in England.

"I read a report on here of dramatic thickness change from washing the patch cloth, a problem?

Also, is it best to use a micrometer or calipers to measure cloth?

Thanks to everyone, this whole patch, ball, and patch lube combo business seems like a voodoo recipe!

No doubt the amount of shooting to get a fairly tuned load will be a lot of fun and that is always a good thing.

The initial plan is learn how to make the Deerstalker go bang most often. This includes knapped english flints, 1/16" flash hole, Goex 4F and 3F, and some lock shimming. So far the flint strike point has moved from the bottom of the frizzen to the middle using a thick leather shim, separate leather wrap, and bevel down. The flint sparks are white but not to abundant. One thing for sure the frizzen is sticky, best description for me, and needs smoothing. The cock coil spring is stout but swings smoothly.

For loading the start is 40 gr 3f with a max at were the accuracy goes south or 70 gr, whichever is first. I don't hunt so max is about range rather than power. Diluted Ballistol (Dutch's system, I have it) dried on the patch and wiping every shot or two."

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

You mentioned already before that you were surprised of my light load ... When I had my Pedersoli Kentucky, (cal .45) he shot best with a 56 grain load, and my Pedersoli Frontier shot best with 50 grains ...(also a .45)...
Patches are ordered in England with Jeff Tanner, who has a very reliable record in selling quality patches. He is knowledgeable about target shooting. Two months ago I ordered a single batch of 6.000 pieces ... For the rest I use your dry patch system ... AND I reread your papers regularly... Every now and then I still have a 'Haha' moment about some detail that clears up something I hadn't noticed before - OR that I forgot ... there are many things in giving off 'the perfect shot'!

 

[nhmoose]

Fouling control.

Any caliber you like. I like .40 myself, small load 35 grains 3fff.

Next WIPE after every shot. I did in competition and when hunting. When I shot I was sure of the shot.

Wiping gave the deer time to stiffen up after a shot it could have run from. When I smoked at least 1 cig was smoked after a shot with an unmentionable. (long time ago)

 

[tenngun]

fiber powder

Uh? What's that? :idunno:

Finer vs fat thumbs and spell check. Most of the time spell check saves me, but every now and then it has to have its little joke

 

[Dr5x]

Chuck,
When you are fussing with patch selection, washing the sizing out of the fabric reduces all your figuring to just the cloth itself. What little difference the sizing might make is probably negligible but why have it.

For measurinh thickness of patch material it is best to use a micrometer because you can exert some pressure to see what the thickness will be when the cloth is crushed between ball and bore.
All the calipers I have seen are quite delicate and an exertion of pressure would likely cause damage to the caliper and the contact points are very small which could give misleading measurements..

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks to everyone.

I am becoming aware that to get the rifle I want building a proper kit or a custom gun is the likely option. This thread helps with the speccing of such.

Bob