Deciphering barrel stamps

[trackpin]

Hi, is anyone here who knows what all these stamps on this barrel mean? I know one of them denotes a black powder proofing, one a date code, don't know which year, one is a manufactures stamp but I don't know what company. They are on a wesson style brass receiver cap lock rifle.

 

[Notchy Bob]

@trackpin ,

Here is my take on it: Your rifle is obviously made in Italy, based on the stamp. That helps narrow down the search for proofmarks. I'm sorry, but I can't make out that little cypher to the right of MADE IN ITALY in the first photo. I suspect it may be the manufacturer's cartouche. I think those Wesson rifles were made by Palmetto, but maybe some other forum members can tell us more about that. The letter/number combination on the far right in the first photo is most likely the manufacturer's serial number for that specific firearm.

In the second photo, reading from left to right after the BLACK POWDER ONLY warning, the first stamp looks like the provisional proof from Gardone (Italy). The other major gunamaking center in that country is Brescia, which has a similar but slightly different proofmark. The PN under the wreath and star is an Italian proofmark for black powder, with PN representing polvera negra, which is Italian for "black powder." The two letters inside the box (AE) are the date code, indicating the rifle was made in 1979.

These two charts may help. The first one is a cropped screenshot from NRA Museum's database of Foreign Proofmarks:



The second is a chart of Italian date codes that I got from this forum some time back. I don't remember who posted it, but would gladly give him credit if I knew. It has proven to be very useful:



I hope this helps!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[trackpin]

@trackpin ,

Here is my take on it: Your rifle is obviously made in Italy, based on the stamp. That helps narrow down the search for proofmarks. I'm sorry, but I can't make out that little cypher to the right of MADE IN ITALY in the first photo. I suspect it may be the manufacturer's cartouche. I think those Wesson rifles were made by Palmetto, but maybe some other forum members can tell us more about that. The letter/number combination on the far right in the first photo is most likely the manufacturer's serial number for that specific firearm.

In the second photo, reading from left to right after the BLACK POWDER ONLY warning, the first stamp looks like the provisional proof from Gardone (Italy). The other major gunamaking center in that country is Brescia, which has a similar but slightly different proofmark. The PN under the wreath and star is an Italian proofmark for black powder, with PN representing polvera negra, which is Italian for "black powder." The two letters inside the box (AE) are the date code, indicating the rifle was made in 1979.

These two charts may help. The first one is a cropped screenshot from NRA Museum's database of Foreign Proofmarks:

View attachment 308374

The second is a chart of Italian date codes that I got from this forum some time back. I don't remember who posted it, but would gladly give him credit if I knew. It has proven to be very useful:

View attachment 308376

I hope this helps!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thank you! A better photo of the makers stamp here.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I was kind of hoping someone who is familiar with the Wesson rifle reproductions would weigh in on this. I’m sorry, but I don’t recognize that stamp. I’m pretty sure Palmetto made Wesson-style rifles, but I don’t know what their “mark” looked like. I think they are out of business now.

I would suggest that you get a full-length photo of each side of your rifle and post those pictures and this possible trademark on the “Firearm Identification” board here on the Muzzleloading Forum, along with your question. Maybe that will get the attention of someone who knows.

I would like to say that the Wesson rifles are interesting firearms. I’ve never shot one, but it looks like a practical design, and I’ve seen photos of these rifles that were really beautiful guns, with nicely figured wood and well finished metal. Too bad we don’t have quality reproductions being made any more! The Pete Allen boxlock actions, which appear similar to the Wesson actions, are still available from a couple of sources, but I don’t think many of these are being used by custom builders now.

Anyway, good luck to you! I hope you get the information you need.

Notchy Bob

 

[hawkeye2]

I believe it may be PR joined together for Riva Esterina (Officina Meccanica Armi Riva Esterina & Co) also DART. There were at least 2 manufacturers of the Wesson style rifle and one was much better quality than the other but I don't remember much beyond that. Rub some chalk in the stamp and see if that shows and photographs better.

 

[SDSmlf]

Thank you! A better photo of the makers stamp here.

If you want that stamp to be a little easier to read, here is a idea I have posted a number of times.

Some have suggested using wax to highlight and bring out stamps and engraving, but I have found using a piece of old chalkboard chalk like they used when many of us were in school works well. When rubbed over the metal surface, the chalk helps make any markings much more visible, and it’s easily cleaned up leaving no evidence anything was done. As an example, both the following photographs were taken at about the same distance with the same camera and lighting (handheld, so slight difference). Difference is that before the second photograph chalk was rubbed into the engraving. Believe you can see that one is significantly easier to read than the other. No other adjustments or funny business between the two photographs.

 

[trackpin]

I believe it may be PR joined together for Riva Esterina (Officina Meccanica Armi Riva Esterina & Co) also DART. There were at least 2 manufacturers of the Wesson style rifle and one was much better quality than the other but I don't remember much beyond that. Rub some chalk in the stamp and see if that shows and photographs better.

I will try the chalk, great idea. Yes, I have found 3 types, an all steel color case hardened action version, A zinc based die cast action cast around the steel breech plug with a sub chamber that is centered and has a right angle to the nipple and the brass version which I have that is cast around a forged steel breech plug with a curved sub chamber to the extreme right when looking at it from the muzzle end that leads to the nipple and does not have a hard right angle. The brass receiver is also proof marked. The threaded recess for the nipple is part of the breech plug, not brass.

 

[trackpin]

I was kind of hoping someone who is familiar with the Wesson rifle reproductions would weigh in on this. I’m sorry, but I don’t recognize that stamp. I’m pretty sure Palmetto made Wesson-style rifles, but I don’t know what their “mark” looked like. I think they are out of business now.

I would suggest that you get a full-length photo of each side of your rifle and post those pictures and this possible trademark on the “Firearm Identification” board here on the Muzzleloading Forum, along with your question. Maybe that will get the attention of someone who knows.

I would like to say that the Wesson rifles are interesting firearms. I’ve never shot one, but it looks like a practical design, and I’ve seen photos of these rifles that were really beautiful guns, with nicely figured wood and well finished metal. Too bad we don’t have quality reproductions being made any more! The Pete Allen boxlock actions, which appear similar to the Wesson actions, are still available from a couple of sources, but I don’t think many of these are being used by custom builders now.

Anyway, good luck to you! I hope you get the information you need.

Notchy Bob

Perhaps of interest. Brass cast around the breech plug with a curved sub chamber leading to the nipple area, no hard right angle. The receiver also has a proof mark. I bet a lot of these went into the reject pile as it would seem very difficult to produce.