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DANG IT - The tumbler broke!

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Griz44Mag

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This is the lock on my Cliff Jackson rifle with the Leatherman Lock (labeled as such, could be something else)
I was happily blasting away when the tumbler failed.
Now I need a lock part and have no idea how to actually identify the lock.
I will not rule out replacing the lock if I can find one that will fit the gun without modifying the stock. It's a beautiful old piece of curly maple.
Any ideas on where to get parts or who I can send the lock to to get it repaired?
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SDSmlf

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Usually see tumblers break when ‘dry firing’ in half cock position with double set triggers. Half cock ledge breaks away. Good luck in your search for a replacement.
 

Griz44Mag

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When I took it apart I noticed that it had a slot for a fly, which was absent.
There were also odd and stray file marks on the tumbler where it looks like one of the previous owners may have done a bubbajob on it.
I got the gun from an estate sell off, and bought it because of the stock and the barrel marked to be one of Bill Large's very early barrels. (No J's on it) It has one underlug missing and a few other things that I am going to fix while I have it down.
I did some comparing of lock sizes using TOTW catalog with actual size drawings, and I think I may convert it to a flinter. The English style lock plate (LR-900) is almost exactly the same footprint as this lock plate. Since the rifle is a bolster cap gun it would be pretty easy to change that to a liner and fit the flint lock to it. This gun would look really good as a flinter......
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Eterry

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I had a chance to buy a Bill Large barrel once. But I was a rookie cop, and "if sailboats were $10 a piece all I could've done is run up and down the dock hollering Ain't that Cheap!"
 

rich pierce

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I’ve got a small box of replacement tumblers from originals. Also keep parts from busted locks. PM sent.
 

Tom Compton

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Talk to L&R, send the lock to them in case there’s something a little off. IE not everyone drills and taps in the same place for a lock plate screw. I bought one of mine for a conversion to flint with no hole for the lock plate screw, good move.
 

The Crisco Kid

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If you have access to a lathe you can have a blank tumbler turned out to the correct diameter and then file the rest to fit. It's tedious but can be done with patience.
 

Griz44Mag

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Talk to L&R, send the lock to them in case there’s something a little off. IE not everyone drills and taps in the same place for a lock plate screw. I bought one of mine for a conversion to flint with no hole for the lock plate screw, good move.
Great advice Tom. I checked the lock I was looking at.
The L&R 900 I am looking at is not pre-drilled. A big plus for sure since I want to make sure it mounts where the trigger will interface correctly.
 

Tom Compton

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Great advice Tom. I checked the lock I was looking at.
The L&R 900 I am looking at is not pre-drilled. A big plus for sure since I want to make sure it mounts where the trigger will interface correctly.
Thx. More advise if you can stand it.
I buy direct from L&R. Request spare springs and a fitted frizzen. Squirrel them away in your big ML box. I had a main spring (Cochran lock) break the middle of a match and was shooting the next relay. Cheap insurance.
 

SDSmlf

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Thanks again Tom. Is there a premium buying direct from L&R? That particular lock is 170.00 at TOTW.
I'll look in L&Rs website if possible.
I have bought L&R locks both direct and from TOW, depends on what is in stock where. No complaints about either. L&R service has been quick when needed.
 

Tom Compton

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Thanks again Tom. Is there a premium buying direct from L&R? That particular lock is 170.00 at TOTW.
I'll look in L&Rs website if possible.
As I recall $ was the same. I wasn’t pleased with one I got from a vendor (to remain in named) lots of casting to be filed.

Great service From L&R. I was using a browning solution that required heating and de hardened the frizzen. Called, Explained my fault, they said send it, added the spare fitted frizzen. Delivered in 2 weeks.
 

Griz44Mag

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Well the saga has finally come full circle.
I did buy an L&R 900 flint lock to replace the percussion with.
I had to open up the inletting in a few places, had to move the trigger back a half inch but overall it was a lot of fun and some great experience for me. The removed bolster was threaded with 3/8 x 16 pitch threads, for which I could find no liner of course.
I went the hardened steel allen set method which I could get in 3/8 x 16 and shaved it down to the right thickness (top and bottom material removal). I drilled a 1/16 flash hole in it and counter drilled a relief cone into the back of it (@Zonie - thanks for the info!)
After fitting the new lock into it's final resting place I tackled the lock bolt issue.
SInce the original gunmaker had drilled the lock bolt hole at a slight angle and used a very small screw (6-40 thread) I used the same guide hole through the stock, opened it up enough for an 8-32 thread bolt and clamped the lock into place. I drilled the hole in the lock plate from the offside of the gun so the hole would be perfectly aligned. SO now it's done. The other miscellaneous small issues were corrected. I will take it out and make sure everything functions as it should and when winter gets here and I am shut in I will take the lock back down and polish it a good finish and brown it to match the barrel. I will also touch up the wood finish in a couple of spots where I had to relieve the wood to allow the lock to fit properly and for the hammer to fall freely.
Since my investment in the gun originally was very reasonable (I spent more on the new lock, new barrel lugs and cleaning supplies than I did the whole gun) I think the gun came out OK. It was a great learning experience for me, and a lot of fun getting to this point.
The WM Large barrel has already proven itself to be a tack driver and the curly maple stock is an eye catcher.
@rich pierce - If you still want the old lock and broken parts PM me your mailing address and I'll send then your way.
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Grenadier1758

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I have the L&R 900 in my Derringer Flint Rifle. Its a good lock. Take a bit of polishing of the parts as installed to speed things up. The picture is the second frame of a video of my rifle being fired.
Derringer Firing 02.jpg

Now its up to you to make some smoke.
 

bud in pa

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When the half cock notch on my Pedersoli Kentucky broke, I welded it up and cut a new half cock notch.
 

Griz44Mag

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When the half cock notch on my Pedersoli Kentucky broke, I welded it up and cut a new half cock notch.
It was not the half cock notch that gave way - the entire arm that links to the mainspring broke off - at the tumbler.
See message #1 of this thread. I was kinda rationing an excuse to convert it to flint - the gun gave me a good reason to go ahead.
 
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Sorry to hear that, pard.

This is one reason why I like to stick to guns using a common lock preferably with a company still in existence, such as L&R or Chambers.
 

Pete G

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It was not the half cock notch that gave way - the entire arm that links to the mainspring broke off - at the tumbler.
See message #1 of this thread. I was kinda rationing an excuse to convert it to flint - the gun gave me a good reason to go ahead.
Usually happens because of incorrect stirrup positioning.
 
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