Conical vrs RB

[rodwha]

3F Triple 7 gives very similar velocities when comparing to Swiss and Olde Eynsford, both being true BP, and this by the same volume.

The custom conicals I had designed have a very wide meplat of .375". I wanted something Keith-like so as if I got no expansion from the pure lead I'd at least cut a big hole.

I am in need of a Lyman's Plains Pistol, and were I to use a pistol as a primary weapon I'd likely use that, though I wouldn't rule out my ROA.

 

[nkbj]

Just put the paper on to soak. Want to try out the .44 Remington with RB versus available elongated bullet designs.

 

[cynthialee]

oh look it is this old :dead: conversation yet again

 

[Dphar]

You REALLY think that a 1858 will make 1250 fps with a round ball with BP?
Really?
This is what it takes to make the 500 ft lbs with a 457 rb as mentioned in your first post.

Dan

 

[Zonie]

As a side note to Dan's velocity comment, Lymans Black Powder Handbook shows that their test of a .44 cap and ball pistol only got a MV of 848 fps shooting a roundball over 35 grains of GOEX 3Fg powder.

The book also shows a velocity of 983 fps over a 45 grain powder load of GOEX 3Fg powder out of a Walker with a round ball.

Last, but not least, the book shows a velocity of 1076 fps over a 40 grain powder load of GOEX 3Fg powder out of a Ruger with a round ball with wonder wad under it.

 

[nkbj]

This comparison was done at close range into stacked paper that was soaked in water with detergent added... really gooey spongy gelled.

The first 452066 didn't seat all the way in with 30 grains so had to trim the nose to let the cylinder rotate. That little bit of added flat really put the brakes on penetration.

 

[rodwha]

I don't have a chronograph to say for sure, but there are several posts, assuming their reports are accurate, which I know can be difficult, that show high energy figures, though it's usually with a conical and not a ball.

I would say that the chances are quite great, if their findings are close enough to true, that one of my custom conicals could as they have greater mass without taking up volume.

If one were to use standard Goex or any of the other similar powders I'd say it's about impossible. With the energetic powders maybe.

Triple 7 gives near identical velocities to Swiss and Olde Eynsford, and with reduced loads it's quite near the 500 ft/lb mark. Possibly? I think so. If not close enough to call it good, but I don't have a chronograph to say for sure.

I was allowed to share a fellow's research done on Civil War revolver cartridges, and it seems that Hazard's Revolver Powder was fairly energetic stuff, much like Swiss or Olde Eynsford. I can email you what I have if you are interested.

 

[swathdiver]

How silly when regulations are based on arbitrary numbers such as foot pounds and fail to consider the lethality of the projectile. A government growing dumber is just a reflection of the people under its rule.

The black powder .45 LC round has taken all North American game and can be easily reproduced in our cap and ball revolvers with Keith inspired, Kaido conicals.

The too simple round ball, just a sphere of pure soft lead, is one of the most deadliest projectiles ever devised by man. It's far more powerful than most of today's whiz-bang techo projectiles.

You fellas seen the video of an ROA firing a Kaido conical going through 15 water bottles and kept on going? Even a .30-06 is hard pressed to do half that. Rudy Betancourt has chrony'd his sixguns pushing over 500 ft lbs of energy with his hunting loads. See the Yahoo Percussion Revolvers Group and International Black Powder Handgun Hunters Group.

As for the OP, get one for the curiosity of it. Like most, you'll go back to round ball. If you want to hunt game beyond 50 yards or in heavy brush, the Kaido Conical is the way to go. Inside of 25 yards, stick with the venerable round ball.

 

[LaBonte]

Not pointed at anyone in particular, but here's a little history lesson regarding the use of foot pounds of energy as a level of killing power by the various government agencies of various states and the feds and where it all began.
While the government uses those foot pound figures in most jurisdictions, it was not them that originated the theorem. It was in fact famed gunsmith and ballistician, P.O. Ackley, who if not the first was one of the first experts to recommend what foot pound figures were appropriate for what game as regards killing power. That was back in the days of magnumitis and the so-called Weatherby era.
Ackley, along with Weatherby and several other well known gun geeks of the period, was an early advocate of high and even hyper velocity to increase killing power.
You can read more about it in his book “Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders.” There is a chapter “Killing Power” in Volume I.
Barnes Bullets has a page that discusses Ackley's ideas on terminal ballistics... http://www.barnesbullets.com/partner-page/product-news/publication-mentions/battlin-bullets/

While I have never agreed with Mr. Ackley on such usage, IMO the man still demands a LOT of respect for his work as an early pioneer of the understanding of modern ballistics theory and how it applies to various shooting disciplines, especially considering the usage of tools/technology that we today would consider primitive/inadequate in comparison to those tools we have available to us today.

 

[TFoley]

Re a 44 Cal you can't get 500 out of an roa with 4fg.
Maybe w walker.

500 ft lbs is not legal for deer in some states

I have read the alleged chronic results. Don't believe it possible with a standard 44 repro.

Adreeg.

Lots of useful information here, Gentlemen, please keep it coming.


tac

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Ft lbs of energy were used as a standard in the US for testing powder supplied to the government in the 1 80s when ballisticians still used a ballistic pendulum.

 

[nkbj]

Anyone tried out the hollow based Ideal 454068?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Sorry about the error in my last post.
My phone keeps changing what I type.
It should read in the 1840 s.

 

[fcderosa]

:surrender: somehow I now regret the asking :dead:

The PRB LEE MOLD came in from TOTW so now all I have to do is make the bullits. So as I understand it, there's little difference in accuracy. As I don't hunt with pistol either modern or BP anything beyond is mute. :thumbsup: Thanks for the imput y'all.

 

[nkbj]

This comparison was done at close range into stacked paper that was soaked in water with detergent added... really gooey spongy gelled.

The first 452066 didn't seat all the way in with 30 grains so had to trim the nose to let the cylinder rotate. That little bit of added flat really put the brakes on penetration.

By the way, those comparison shots were with a standard off the shelf 1858 Pietta .44 with 8" barrel. The rear half of the long bullets were swaged down to slip into the goofy undersized chambers.