Colerain barrel problems?

[stombaug]

I just saw a picture on Facebook of a colerain barrel that a builder cut down 10" and says that the barrel is not bored down the center (and the pictures look like he's right). He also mentions that this was the second colerain barrel in a row that he found to have this problem.

Anybody out there aware of this problem? Is it common to all colerain barrels?

 

[Stophel]

Never heard this before. "Run out" used to be a problem with barrels made like 30+ years ago, being bored from an octagon shaped blank. Now, Colerain and everyone else, bores them from solid stock, then centers the bore ends in a mill then mills the flats.

:idunno:

The only problem I have had with a Colerain barrel is one I got had a very tiny "bump" in the rifling. Scott at Colerain said that is rare, but has been known to happen, and he sent me a new barrel. :wink: Actually, most people would probably never notice the bump, I can't really even feel it with a patched jag, so I'm gonna use it on my own gun. :wink:

I can't see what he's got, so I can't say what his problem may be. I do think that it's really not so important to be perfectly centered anyway, just as long as it's not so off that the barrel wall gets too thin.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Yep, I bought a Colerain English fowler barrel that was off center. Scott at Colerain was super accommodating and sent me a new barrel after I sent him my barrel to inspect, he offered me any barrel they made because I had spent a bunch on jug choking, breech plug fitting and installing a white lightning liner before I noticed the flawed barrel. I elected to keep my old barrel instead of a new one because I had so much work in so he sent it back to me. I have plans for another( bargain basement cost) fowler and don't mind the barrel flaw as the gun will stay at my house.

Scott said they had a worn out bearing on their boring machine and a few of these barrels slipped through.

 

[alex efremenko]

Very period correct.

 

[stombaug]

I could post the picture that the guy posted but I don't think i can do that without his permission. If you're on Facebook go to traditional muzzleloader association and you'll find it.

A worn bearing on the boring machine makes sense. I became concerned because I have a rifle ordered from TVM that has one of these barrels.

If nothing else, something like this will certainly improve quality control methods.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Birddog6]

A bore off center in the middle is because it was bore with a dull bit, or too much pressure on the bit for the sharpness of that bit. It causes the bit to arc thus boring in a arc. This is more commonly found on smaller bores, because the bit is smaller & will flex easier.

I had the same thing happen with a .36 cal. Colerain barrel about? 12 yrs ago. Got the rifle ready to finish thought since it was nice out, would go shoot it. At 25 yds it shot over a foot to the left & a foot low. Colerain sent me a new barrel & I got it in the stock & pinned vent liner location marked. Took it back out to drill then vent liner only to discover it had a 1/2" breech plug in a 9/16" deep hole. :shake: Sent that barrel back & they sent me another barrel & it was OK & I finished the rifle.

About 1/2 of the Colerain barrels I have used have had issues in the bore or the breeching. I have used over 25 of them. I now have about 3 more to use & then I am done with them. Never had a problem with accuracy with them, but allot of them with loose spots in the bore & half of them not breeched correctly. (Gaps at the breechface/bore. :idunno

IMHO, they should knock another $25. off their price & not breech their barrels at all, if they are not going to breech them correctly.

Keith Lisle

PS: I kept the defective barrel, cut it in half & the bore was way off center. Had it been turned over, my underlug dovetail would have cut into the bore. :shocked2:

 

[Spikebuck]

Wow...that's not just a tiny fraction of production, if your barrels are taken as a representative sample.

It just seems that on something as critical as a barrel, each and every one would be getting a series of quality checks such that these things would not be getting out the door...especially at this rate!

Glad I had my current build's Colerain breech installed by ToW's gunsmith!

 

[Rifleman1776]

A deer running for his life would never notice it. :wink:

 

[M. De Land]

One other thing that can make a deep hole bit wonder is oil pressure at the cutting edge.
A deep hole bore cuts it's own centering pivot/cone as it progresses up bore and if the chips are not flushed out back up the V in the oil tube it can be deflected.
The pressure has to be gradually increased as the bit goes deeper because the swarf/chips gets harder to push out as the volume increases.

 

[frogwalking]

I built a rifle a few years ago using a different make of barrel. The rifle is very accurate, but inexplicably shoots slightly to one side. I had to drift the front sight off to one side a little, and the rear sight off to the other side. The barrel was not warped, the bore was centered at both ends. I bet the drill wandered in the manner being discussed here.

 

[Stophel]

My opinion is that 200+ years ago, a rifle would be built, sights centered, fired, and if the shots were off, the barrel would be bent to adjust impact, rather than move the sights around. :wink:

 

[alex efremenko]

I agree,it certainly would not have been discarded for a few ''flaws''.

 

[jerrywh]

The last 6" of the barrel determines the direction of the bullet.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I built a rifle a few years ago using a different make of barrel. The rifle is very accurate, but inexplicably shoots slightly to one side. I had to drift the front sight off to one side a little, and the rear sight off to the other side. The barrel was not warped, the bore was centered at both ends. I bet the drill wandered in the manner being discussed here.

Back when Douglas barrels dominated the ml market they came with the company name stamped on one flat. It was known this flat should be mounted on either the top or bottom when the rifle was built. That is because Douglas bored after the octagonal barrel was drawn to shape. Most barrels had some run-out to one side. If that side was mounte left or right on the finished rifle, the sights would have to be way-way to one side to make the ball print center. It was much easier to adjust for elevation than windage. The issue is not a biggie but must be understood by a wannabe builder.

 

[wulf]

Take a coiled up garden hose...Does the water
come out curved? Like Jerry says "the last 9 ".

 

[alex efremenko]

Alright, the history geek in me asks: is there any documentation regarding this problem and what was done about it. I ask because I've not read any thing regarding the subject. :hmm:

 

[Elnathan]

Alright, the history geek in me asks: is there any documentation regarding this problem and what was done about it. I ask because I've not read any thing regarding the subject. :hmm:

Meshach Browning talks about bending a barrel on a new rifle, just as Stophel describes, in 44 years in the Life of a Hunter. He was apparently surprised and dismayed to get a new rifle that had to be adjusted to shoot to the sights, and IIRC never quite got it shooting to his satisfaction.

I know I've seen original descriptions of Indians bending smoothbore barrels, but I don't recall where. I had a look in Hamilton's Colonial Frontier Guns, but I couldn't find anything.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Take a coiled up garden hose...Does the water
come out curved? Like Jerry says "the last 9 ".

Yes, it curves down, just like a bullet does, but closer to the end of the hose. :hmm:

 

[Birddog6]

This will bend any rifle or shotgun barrel. However, when the rifling is almost thru the side of the barrel, it doesn't need bent, it needs replaced. Also when you can look down the bore & SEE the arc in it, and the outside of the barrel is straight ? The barrel needs replaced.

This is what I have bent them with. It will bend anything I have put in it, and bend it where you want it bent. Should have taken a end photo, as that base is a "I" beam with the top of it milled off. As you can see you can adjust the barrel or press part where you want it.





I my cases of bending them, they are actually bowed just a few thousands & one would actually have to measure it, as you cannot normally see it. Once put back in the stock it is not seen at all.

Keith Lisle

PS: I think this handle & worm gear are off a Civil War submarine. :shocked2: