Civil War - Big Bore Barrel Obstruction

[roundball]

 

[RADeO]

Dang Roundball! Looks like they went and short-started a ball. Ya think they coulda maybe cleaned up the muzzle and then used it as a carronade? :haha:

 

[roundball]

Dang Roundball! Looks like they went and short-started a ball. Ya think they coulda maybe cleaned up the muzzle and then used it as a carronade? :haha:

maybe the Powder Monkey read a post here about just "shootin it out"...trickled a few pounds of powder down the vent, and touched it off...LOL

 

[ken.clements]

I would have loved to hear how these guys tried to explain that to their officers :grin:
"we'll Sir, we just had to shorten the barrel because as you know, you changed the team roster last week and Johny just couldn't reach the muzzle"

 

[Zonie]

Ya know, Sam? We completely overshot
that little dinghy with the ball, but the
end of the barrel sure took 'um out!

I don't see hide nor hair of 'um.

 

[MJMarkey]

Looks like they may have been still using it. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[Dphar]

Not all failures, then or now, are the result of loading errors.
Its a Parrot Rifle by the reinforced breech design, 200 pounder at least since a 100 pounder was 6.2" bore. Looks several feet are missing. They shot shells not balls. It likely shot about 150-200 pounds of very large grain powder. Burst iron guns was common in the Civil War and considerable study was done in how they were cast and designed but the problem did not disappear until breechloaders came into use.
A large gun on the USS Princeton burst and killed the Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of State in 1844. The other large gun on the Princeton had been reinforced because it had cracks in it, I have read.
It is also possible it was struck by return fire. But the broken timbers below the "break" seem to indicate it blew off at that point.

200 pounder Parrott

Search Yahoo for "200 pounder Parrott rifle" to find a series of photos including this one and several views of the shells of various sizes.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Looking at scale of the two photos the burst gun may be a 300 pounder.

Dan

 

[54ball]

I wonder if they had a fuse malfunction and the shell exploded in the bbl?
My first boss was a artilleryman in Vietnam. He said a whole crew was lost when a heavy gun exploded. The fuses were counted and there was one extra. Apparently the fuse forgotten.
I forget what size he said that gun was but it was much larger than a 105 Howitzer, seems like he said it was measured in inches.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

That was a nice post with good pictures. I tried to find the powder charges used for the 300pdr. One site said that a 26 pd. powder charge was the standard while another said a 25 pd. charge was used.

I looked at a cyclopedia of 1860 - 1866 artillery regs which said that Parrott gun used a charge of 1 pound of powder for every 10 pounds of projectile weight but a Rodman gun or a Columbiad used 1 pound of powder for every 8 pounds of projectile weight.

The cyclopedia only went up to 100pdr Parrot guns though and not the 200pdrs or 300pdrs.

Regardless of the charge used I would love to see one of them fired first hand.

 

[Dphar]

That was a nice post with good pictures. I tried to find the powder charges used for the 300pdr. One site said that a 26 pd. powder charge was the standard while another said a 25 pd. charge was used.

I looked at a cyclopedia of 1860 - 1866 artillery regs which said that Parrott gun used a charge of 1 pound of powder for every 10 pounds of projectile weight but a Rodman gun or a Columbiad used 1 pound of powder for every 8 pounds of projectile weight.

The cyclopedia only went up to 100pdr Parrot guns though and not the 200pdrs or 300pdrs.

Regardless of the charge used I would love to see one of them fired first hand.

You are correct in the charge weights. I was operating on memory from something I was told years back. I should have double checked. Thanks for the correction. Artillery is only of passing interest I probably should not even post on it.

The Parrott rifle apparently had a reputation for bursting and artillerymen did not like them much.
The 8" "Swamp Angel used to shell Charleston from 8000+- yards burst on the 36th round for example.

There are some original accounts on the WWW if people are interested in looking for them.

Dan

 

[54ball]

It seems I remember, the only men killed at the Battle of Fort Sumter were two union canoneers.
They were killed when a gun burst during the surrender ceremony.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I wonder if they had a fuse malfunction and the shell exploded in the bbl?
My first boss was a artilleryman in Vietnam. He said a whole crew was lost when a heavy gun exploded. The fuses were counted and there was one extra. Apparently the fuse forgotten.
I forget what size he said that gun was but it was much larger than a 105 Howitzer, seems like he said it was measured in inches.

Don't know what happened but I will bet all involved need a wardrobe change! :shocked2:

 

[Dphar]

I wonder if they had a fuse malfunction and the shell exploded in the bbl?
My first boss was a artilleryman in Vietnam. He said a whole crew was lost when a heavy gun exploded. The fuses were counted and there was one extra. Apparently the fuse forgotten.
I forget what size he said that gun was but it was much larger than a 105 Howitzer, seems like he said it was measured in inches.

Probably an 8" Howitzer. Army had these up along the DMZ. The projectile is not something you want to be close to when it detonates.

Dan

 

[RADeO]

Looks like they may have been still using it. :idunno: :idunno:

Jist give them boys some bastard files an' set 'em to filin' on that-there muzzle ta true 'er up a mite 'n' git 'er back on the line! :rotf:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

The Parrott rifle apparently had a reputation for bursting and artillerymen did not like them much.
The 8" "Swamp Angel used to shell Charleston from 8000+- yards burst on the 36th round for example.

I vaguely recall the Swamp Angel continuing in use after the burst, possibly after cleaning up the muzzle. Could that be the Swamp Angel?

Regards,
Joel

 

[TheDoubleD]

Widow Blakeley lost the end of her barrel and was cleansed up and used more like a mortar than a cannon at Vicksburg.

 

[mhb]

I recall reading of a heavy gun (a Parrott, I believe) which blew-off at the muzzle after 35 rounds or so, was 'chipped-back' and continued in service for a while afterward. Perhaps the illustrated gun is that one. The Parrotts were cast-iron rifled pieces, and were, perhaps, more prone to such failures than smoothbore shell guns of similar bore, which used lighter projectiles at maximum pressures which were probably lower. The Parrotts and similar rifled pieces did have much greater effective range, which made them useful in siege work and in shore defense.
I saw the wreck of an M109 155mm howitzer at Grafenwoehr, Germany, shortly after it had suffered an 'in-bore' premature detonation of the shell, possibly caused by a fuse malfunction. It was impressive: the tube was cut off just ahead of the evacuator, and the turret had been blown entirely off the chassis, lying 25 or 30 yards away. Several of the crew were killed, and other crew members were injured, though I don't remember the numbers. It was impressive, to say the least. So were the effects of the battalion TOT (time-on-target) fires they had been engaged in. We were watching the target area (old armored vehicles) while the battalion fired several salvos from all guns, coordinated so that all the rounds arrived and air-burst simultaneously over the target. I knew right then that this modern warfare business was entirely too dangerous, even without unanticipated events.
mhb - Mike

 

[bangfxr]

I'd say there were internal cracks in the barrel and the tube blew after the gun was fired. I have seen tubes blow due to internal cracks. I was doing range support at Baulmholder West Germany and a M110 self propelled arty was firing and during thier 5th shot half of the tube disappeared and the came out of battery and the breech was in the well and hydrolic lines blew from the force. Luckly no one was hurt but it got everyones attention. Saw the end results of an M1 Abrams at National Training Center (NTC) Ft Erwin CA. there was a crack in the barrel between two evacuater holes (Was not seen during borescope and pull over gauging. Required every 180 days.) 3rd shot and the gun came out of battery and the recoil system was wrecked no one hurt luckly. Tubes can have unseen cracks and after so much pressure will blow.

 

[mhb]

Well, I did not learn the results of the after-accident investigation into the failure of the M109, but, the fact that breech obviously failed, too, and that the turret and the gun were blown completely off the chassis makes it apparent to me that whatever did happen did so when the projectile detonated in-bore. I'm sure that flaws in the tube can also lead to failure at some point along the bore, but convinced that a tube failure ahead of the evacuator could hardly have had so disastrous effect on the whole system.
mhb - Mike