Cheater barrel?

[cynthialee]

When I run a tight patched jag down my smooth bore it twists the rod when I pull it out. I have checked it multiple times and it does it every time and always the same direction.
I have heard of guys having visualy imperceptable rifleing cut in a smooth bore to cheat at matches.

any chance that is what I have on my hands?

 

[Matt85]

ive heard of this in dueling pistols but never in a long gun. but ive been surprised before, how accurate does it shoot at 50 yards?

-matt

 

[cynthialee]

don't know yet. I have shot it at 30 and it is pretty much on target, but I haven't had the chance too shoot undisturbed until I have it nailed down. Mainly I have been shooting shot.

 

[pargent]

Some high pressure tubing has this internal feature ,this is formed during manufacture .

 

[Rifleman1776]

Get a good bore light and take a look when the barrel is squeaky clean. I like the little flashlight sold at O'Rielly's auto stores. About $10.00.

 

[Many Klatch]

CL, you can get a real cheap bore light at the sporting goods store. Look for the little light that attaches to a bobber for night fishing. Drop that down the barrel and see what you have.

There have been a few people that had a rifle barrel bored smooth for the last few inches so they could win smoothbore matches. That is why at Friendship, all smoothbore barrels have to be checked with a bore light before it can be used in competition.

Talking HC/PC there were a few of these cheater guns built by men that were supposed to show up at the militia drill with a smoothbore, but they wanted a rifle so they backbored the rifled barrel a bit at the muzzle, this was before borelights.

Many Klatch

 

[tenngun]

I understand this can be done with steelwool,it would be a cheat if used in a match.The upside of this is you may be able to shoot shot well and ball good for the four foted.It may be that its just an arifact from the boreing and hoaning.I read you shoot little guns a lot,dont know if you compeat,I hope your new gun will be usable if you need it for the fireing line,if not I'm sure you will put more then 1 meal on your old mans plate with it.It can still bring you lots of fun and not really be out of step with history :thumbsup:

 

[cynthialee]

I only shoot to amuse myself that someday I might take game with one of these smoke poles. I do not shoot competitive at all.

 

[Dphar]

There are accounts of people rifling barrels with a lead lap and coarse emery. This from 1840s-50s.
A barrel done in this manner in a slow twist rifling machine I would think would be hard to detect and will shoot very much like a rifle for 100 rounds or so. According to skilled gunsmiths of the early 19th c.
This WAS used in SB matches I might add and won everything...

Dan

 

[phoenix511]

Some thoughts:

(1) What is the rate-of-twist you find when pulling out the cleaning rod? You can check this with an improvised "flag" of masking tape: how far do you need to pull the rod for the flag to make a complete turn?

(2) If this is a trade gun, then IF there is anything to be gained by rifling, it is insignificant considering there can be no rear sight in NMLRA competition.

(3) Anything other than a very smooth bore will degrade the shot pattern, so if there is deep rifling, the shot pattern could be enormous.(Try a shot cartridge in a 45 LC pistol? Good for about 12" from the snake's head, more than that so dispersed as to be ineffective.)

(4) If the firearm shoots shot to your satisfaction, then whatever is in the bore does not make a difference.

Let us know what you find for a twist rate.

 

[Dphar]

Twist rate, while of interest, is really not that relevant. If its one turn in 10-12 ft it will increase accuracy over a SB in the larger bore sizes.
To think I am the only one to read the account of Nicandor Kendall scratch rifling the SB to win "SB only" turkey matches or that has heard of scratch rifled dueling pistols is silly. I have thought of scratch rifling one using a rifle barrel as a guide just to see how it works.
Rear sights are nice. Barrel that will shoot into 2" at 50 yards greatly handicaps people with the same sights with a barrel that shoots 4-5" at 50 yards. If the shooter practices he can perfect his hold and increase his sighting accuracy.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

A slow twist will shoot shot better than the typical modern pistol with 16" twist. I have shot small shot from a 54 pistol with a 66" twist and loaded heavy the pattern, on paper, was good to 15-20 yards for Grouse sized critters. But since I could head shoot grouse that far when setting I saw little use in it.
I have a friend who once shot trap with a 54 rifle with a 66 twist and said it worked surprisingly well.

Dan

 

[pargent]

The tube I mentioned was a favourite of some builders to make their barrels out of , their guns always shot ball quite well for some strange reason .

 

[pathfinder Ted]

We actually caught a guy with cut rifling @6" below the muzzle in his N/W gun! Talk about not having "The Spirit of muzzleloading" in him!

He had won SO many matches,someone noticed one of his patches had the same look that rifles give them.

 

[Rifleman1776]

We actually caught a guy with cut rifling @6" below the muzzle in his N/W gun! Talk about not having "The Spirit of muzzleloading" in him!

He had won SO many matches,someone noticed one of his patches had the same look that rifles give them.

Does he now sing soprano?

 

[cynthialee]

So I am thinking that the 'twist' is an artifact from the crafting process.
The twist is only evident in a very tight patch and it is a very fast twist like every few inches.
The barrel was never fired prior to my aquireing it and it has a rear sight as it is a stock .56 barrel from T/C. Looking down the bore with a light and it looks untampered with. No indication it was going to be used in compitition.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

I'm thinking that you really don't have any "twist" in the barrel at all! If the jag is fairly tight, I'm betting that what is really happening is that there is enough friction on the jag that is is simply loosening itself by unscrewing from the rod slightly as you draw the rod out. I'm sure this is it as I have a rod/jag combination for one of my smoothbores that does the same thing.

 

[Leatherbark]

Gosh girl, if you ever get a chance to shoot competetivly you would hava a blast. You'll get to where you cannot wait for the next match. Lots of women shoot at muzzleloading matches. Lots of comraderie and cooking too (guys and gals).

I'm sure there are clubs around you somewhere in your state.

Bob

 

[BrownBear]

So I am thinking that the 'twist' is an artifact from the crafting process.
The twist is only evident in a very tight patch and it is a very fast twist like every few inches.
The barrel was never fired prior to my aquireing it and it has a rear sight as it is a stock .56 barrel from T/C. Looking down the bore with a light and it looks untampered with. No indication it was going to be used in compitition.

Gotta pose another possibility. I can get "twist" on a cleaning rod out of any smoothbore barrel I've run a tight patch down, whether modern or muzzleloader. Even the highest end, most polished bore possible in a big ticket modern trap gun.

Spent a lot of time looking at it and finally came up with an hypothesis that works for me:

Watch that patch and how it folds around the jag as your first start it through the bore. The folds and laps aren't straight- They fold over to the side. Examine a dirty patch you retract and you'll see further evidence. My hypothesis is that it's more about the tight patches folding at an angle as they go in the bore, causing the "twist" as they move up or down the bore.

Not discounting that anyone's particular gun might have some "micro" rifling to the boring. But my guns all seem to have "macro" rifling on tight patches.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Plausable as well.