Casting R/ B

[homebrew .357]

Hi Guys, I had a go at casting with my new lee REAL and round ball mould using 75/25 lead/ lino mix. The reals came out good at 193grs, but had a lot of voids at the top of the R/Balls, what causes this , not hot enough lead or to hot?. I tried the bullets to see how easy they were to load in the barrel, bit of lube and a tap in and then hand push with the long starter, no problem, mind there's no fowling. On getting then out a good rifling fit so looking good. Will try them with 65grs 3f on the 50y range to see how they go, do you guys use them for hunting?, Cheers Homebrew.357.

 

[Many Klatch]

You get voids in the top of the ball because lead shrinks as it cools. I keep pouring the lead into and over the mold for a few seconds after the mold has filled so that as the lead in the mold cools there is still some hot lead to fill the void. Voids are a real problem with the larger calibers. When casting my .715 Bess roundball I really have to be careful to avoid voids.

Voids will affect your accuracy because the weight of the balls will vary from shot to shot.

So hold the mold over the lead pot, pour in the lead and keep pouring it for a few more seconds. If you angle the mold right the solidified lead will knock off the mold when you hit the sprue cutter.

 

[Toomuch51]

Many Klatch is right about eliminating voids in your cast balls, (the same also applies to your REAL bullets, or any other castings).

As for the best choice for hunting mine is (and always will be) the patched round ball.

 

[dledinger]

I played with REALS in both of my sons rifles...1:48 barrels. Both needed pretty substantial powder charge and over powder wads. One of them, a 54, really liked 90 grains of fffg and two wads. With a 380 grain bullet that's a real thumper for a kid.

They'll be hunting with round balls.

 

[curator]

Homebrew357:

You will have better performance by eliminating Linotype from your casting alloy. Both the REAL bullet and round ball will work better cast from nearly pure lead. You will need to be working with a clean, hot mould, and also hot melt (around 800 F) I do add about 1/10th of one percent tin to my pure lead casting alloy which adds no hardness but does help a bit with casting nice crisp balls and bullets. Any Antimony will significantly harden and make slugs brittle (shatter on impact)

You can reduce the void by pouring a generous sprue on top of the sprue plate and topping it up as it solidifies, or running the lead over as suggested by other posters. Carefully loading your round balls sprue up and centered will eliminate any effect it might have on accuracy.

I have excellent results using the Lee moulds but there is a bit of a learning curve. They need to be scrupulously clean and sparingly lubed according to the manufacturer's recommendations. For other tips on getting these inexpensive moulds to perform well google "lee-menting."

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I do add about 1/10th of one percent tin to my pure lead casting alloy which adds no hardness but does help a bit with casting nice crisp balls and bullets.

Huh..., I thought any tin, antimony, bismuth would contribute to a harder product.

Learned something new, thanks. :wink: :grin:

LD

 

[BrownBear]

Tin is marvelous for helping fills in any conical, but no it doesn't add appreciably to the hardness.

However, linotype is likely to be hugely counterproductive for REALs. The name is an acronym for "Rifling Engaged At Loading," and in fact the top band on the bullet is oversize to the bore. It's not too bad starting a pure lead (plus a little tin, of course) bullet, but those cast with even 5% linotype can require some serious hammering with a mallet.

Another coupla points:

Even with pure lead, REALs generally give the best accuracy with a lubed felt wad between them and the powder.

In addition to pouring balls with a puddle on the sprue plate (great advice), on larger balls it can help to "offset" the stream of lead to one side as your pour through the hole in the sprue plate. This helps swirl the lead in the mold and results in a more consistent fill. Not so much an issue in 54 caliber and smaller, but a growing issue as ball size increases over that.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You can reduce the void by pouring a generous sprue on top of the sprue plate and topping it up as it solidifies, or running the lead over as suggested by other posters.

Amen, Bro.
Always overpour and leave a puddle on top. That way, as the lead cools it will pull from the puddle into the mould and, if the stars are in alignment, fill any voids in the ball or bullet.

 

[hanshi]

Great advice. Back when I use to cast a lot of handgun bullets, I softened them to make them shoot better from pistols and revolvers. Pure lead is best but a little tin shouldn't hurt.

 

[curator]

2% tin added to pure lead will raise the BHN from 5 to 6. Two Per cent is 4 times more tin than is needed to improve 'castability" of pure lead. Pure lead tends to have high surface tension and forms a large radius "meniscus." It only takes a trace of tin to significantly reduce this and improve fill-out.

1/2% is easy to compute and works great. 10 pounds of lead is 160 ounces. If I add 1.5 ounces of 50/50 lead-tin solder I end up with slightly less than 1/2% tin added to my pure lead. Testing the resulting "alloy" with my LBT lead hardness tester shows no change from BHN5 or pure lead.

 

[fleener]

Each year I cast hundreds of .45 cal conicals that are over 530 grains for shooting in my ML out to 1,000 yards. Casting good bullets is very critical for me.

I use a dipper and leave the full dipper on top of the mold for a fast 5 second count. It does two things. It provides more lead if needed to fill out the mold, and the head pressure of dipper full of lead helps fill out the mold eliminating voids.

I pre heat my molds on a hot plate. The molds I use are steel.

Being consistent with your methods will help with casting good bullets.

I also think a good quality pot with a good thermostat has help my casting consistence.

Fleener

 

[homebrew .357]

Thanks for the reply's guys, and I will take that all on board. I think my lead was not hot enough as the spruce hole was Harding up when I removed the dipper, will look at more heat. I do have two lead pots, one for straight lead and one with the lino in for my .3030 casting. I also have a bit of pure tin, witch I do add a bit to my lead to help it flow. Cheers, Homebrew.357. PS, hey we got the cup!! :thumbsup: ???, the sailing one off Bermuda.

 

[Cowboy]

I will say that I'm known to be average at best in most things when it comes to anything to do with Traditional Muzzleloading and all the other aspects that go along with it. BUT.... when it comes to casting ball I do believe I rather shine! It shames me to admit that I cast more than I shoot. With all that being said, I'll stop bragging and get off my soapbox.

I would like to give some advice that I'd hope that would be helpful to you my friend.

First off, I cast with pure lead ( BHN #5 ). I too find best results with my lead at 800 degrees. I've personally found no need to add tin to my lead for better fill out with that temp. Also, the mould and ladle needs to be equally up to temp as well!

Like others have already mentioned, I fill each cavity leaving a puddle about the size of a dime on the sprue plate above each cavity. You will actually see the cavity sucking up the lead with a vacuum effect. That's why it's important to leave a puddle of lead above the cavity.

I've found that it usually takes around 4 seconds for the lead to solidify in the mold. I always give it a 4 count before I tap open the sprue plate. Then I drop my ball's on a soft towel. I always check the sprue area on the freshly made ball looking for pin holes. If I find one, back in the pot it goes!

If yer balls have wrinkles, the lead or mold isn't hot enough! If the lead is to hot its gonna take forever for the lead to solidify! The puddle on the sprue plate will stay in a liquid form for a lot longer than the 4 seconds. Also your balls might come out deformed when you open your mold to drop them.

Remember to always tap on the bolt on your handles if the ball is hanging up in yer mould. NEVER...tap on the mould block itself!!!

I always flux my lead prior to casting. ( Cleaning yer lead ). People use a lot of different things to use for flux. Wax, Saw Dust, Charcoal, candles, crayon's. What ever you use it sure doesn't take much at all! If ya use paraffin wax like I usually use or anything for that matter, ya want to use about the amount the size of maybe a pea! When you add it to your lead it'll smoke followed by a delayed puff of flames until the fluxing material is burnt off. Watch for the delayed flame! Ya just might get a visit from the tensil farey!!

If you lube the guide pins on the mold block halves, ya want to just barely touch the tip of the guide pins. I personally just use bees wax for that. You want to be careful to not let that wax travel and creep into your mould cavities. The end result will be deformed ball's. Same with lubing the sprue plate washer.

Ya want to get yourself into a nice easy steady rhythm when casting. Be consistent in everything you do!

There's more that probably needs mentioning but these are a few things off the top of my head for now.

Good luck in your casting and most importantly, Have Fun my friend!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Don Steele]

Best thing a serious caster can have is a thermometer. As previously mentioned and supported by my own experience, holding the pot around 800 degrees (that's Fahrenheit not Celsius)gives me the best results.
BTW: while it pains me to do so:
CONGRATULATIONS to Emirates Team New Zealand. :hatsoff:
We'll be back.... :wink:

 

[amcmullen]

I started casting my self last year. A lot of fun and rewarding. I got the same Lee mold type and I had issues with the pot holes. Mine was caused by wax on the sprue cutter. A good cleaning and lube with graphite pencil straightened it out. As stated before temps are critical. I like 850 but maybe my thermometer is off.

One more observation. If it gets too hot you will get fantastic looking bullets that weight 5 grains too heavy and are several thousands too large...

 

[FishDFly]

"One more observation. If it gets too hot you will get fantastic looking bullets that weight 5 grains too heavy and are several thousands too large..."

How does heat increase the specifice gravity of lead and increase too large in an enclosed mold???????????????

 

[amcmullen]

I'm assuming that the aluminum expands. I don't know why but it did

 

[necchi]

I'm ass-u-mi-[strike]ng[/strike]

You shouldn't do that :wink:

 

[homebrew .357]

Again ,Thanks guys, I will use only lead for my Hawken, make it a lot easer to load the r e a ls. All the bullets were ok, but yer, some had wrinkles, so must get things hot, Cheers, Hombrew.357.

 

[Zonie]

I'm assuming that the aluminum expands. I don't know why but it did

Aluminum does expand as it gets hotter.

The amount varies but as a ballpark, it expands about 12 millionths of an inch for each degree F the temperature increases multiplied by the size of the area in question measured in inches.

Figuring the temperature, one must subtract 70 degrees F from the value because that is the standard temperature things are made at.

OK, so how's this work on a .50 caliber mold casting lead at 800 degrees F?

800-70= 730 degrees F temperature rise.

12 X 10^-6 X 730 X .50 = .00438 inches of growth.

A good mold making company knows this so this value is taken into account when they machine the cavity.
Also taken into account is the shrinkage of the lead as it cools from the 800 degree casting temperature to room temperature.