Cast some balls today

[jamieorr]

I've had a new two hole Lyman mould for .490 balls for a while, finally tried it out today. I have had a small Lyman pot, maybe 3 3/4" across and 2" deep, with their ladle, collecting dust for some 45 years. I fired up my propane camp stove and put the pot on it, about half full of lead that I think was originally used to seal a 55 gallon drum with a removable lid.

I forgot to get something to take off the dross so used the back of the ladle to push it aside, didn't flux the lead either. With all this lack of preparation, I wasn't sure how the balls would turn out, but it all worked great.

I pre-heated the mould by sticking the bottom of it in the lead, had to peel some off the first pour, but after that the balls kept it hot enough.

Once all the fiddling around was done, I was casting two balls every minute or so. The sprue cutter made nice clean cuts and the balls fell out of the mould with no problem. I don't have a scale so can't say how consistent they are inside but the surface of the balls is smooth and shiny.

I measured these and the swaged Hornady balls I've been using and got just about exactly .490 for both. That's based on a sample of one each and I'm not that good with the micrometer yet, but it looks like they're the same size.

Next thing is to go and shoot some!

Jamie

 

[robert bw]

to me,casting is just one aspect of what makesMZL so great.I to cast rlb,i have a small dipper probably desighned to be used with a pot.I also have a two cavity mould.probably melt 2 to 3 ounces at a time.with a full dipper i can cast up to 6 451 balls in a minute or so.i like to work sittin on the ground outside in the sand so as to minimize potential accidents(melted lead makes me more nervouse than the service)quick,deliberate actions cou.pled with repetition is key.round balls!!

 

[necchi]

I was casting two balls every minute or so.

We all started casting the first ball,,
Once you get the bug's worked out and an idea of what your doing the rhythm is about 10-12 seconds per,(even faster with practice)
Pour, harden, cut, drop, pour-harden-cut-drop,,,
The rhythm is all about maintaining melt and mold temps. Too long between individual pours and the mold doesn't maintain a proper temp

 

[Don Steele]

Congratulations Jamie. Sounds like you're on your way. The proof will be in the shooting. The best advice I ever read about bullet casting went something like:
Once everything is up to temperature..."go like hell". That doesn't mean being dangerously erratic. Rather, as previously mentioned...once you get going, keep a measured, consistent pace without random delays or a lot of stop-and-starts.
Like so many other aspects of this sport, consistency in every step is required for consistent results on the target.
ENJOY..!!!

 

[jamieorr]

I wasn't sure how long I should leave the balls before opening the mould, I didn't time it but I might have given them half a minute. Sounds as if I didn't need to wait that long.

On the plus side, the mould didn't cool between castings so I don't need to rush either.

Jamie

 

[robert bw]

it literally solidifies in seconds.i open the mould straightaway and drop them on leather pad

 

[Flintlock]

When the lead on top of the sprue hole frost over and harden, you can open the mold. Sounds like your doing fine, careful though, I have molds for all my front stuffers as well as all the more modern handgun and pistol cal. carbines, it can get addictive.

 

[Don Steele]

Jamie,
30 seconds is a lot longer than necessary for roundballs.
The only time I actually "wait" even a little bit is when I'm casting the 535 gn bullets for BPCR.
As long as the top of the sprue isn't smearing when you open the cutter, and you're dropping them on a soft surface( I use a folded towel) you'll be fine.

 

[Flintlock]

Don Steele, a folded towel to drop the cast balls in really, I use my breechclout, while I'm wearing it. In honesty, give them something like a folded towel to land on.

 

[necchi]

On the plus side, the mould didn't cool between castings so I don't need to rush either.

Cool, Special mold, glad you have it all down already.

 

[artmechanic]

Sounds like you're doing well. Thought I'd share a little something I put together when I was casting .54 REALs.

It's true...once you start casting, it becomes delightfully addictive. [youtube]rXuBCFKhzF8[/youtube]

 

[jamieorr]

On the plus side, the mould didn't cool between castings so I don't need to rush either.

Okay, I lied. I went out and cast another 30 odd balls today. This time I happened to put on my reading glasses when I took off the safety glasses, and I found wrinkles on all of the balls. They resembled paint sags, only much flatter of course (please don't ask me how I know about paint flaws too.)

There are other flaws that look as if a drop or two of lead came in and congealed before the rest of the pour arrived. It's a two hole mould, I think I must have been sloppy in pouring the lead.

I went back to the balls from the first pour, and they also show flaws, so it's back to the drawing board. I'll shoot a few of these and compare results to the swaged balls, just to see, but I obviously have to have hotter lead or keep the dipper and/or mould hotter.

After reading other lead threads, I looked up bullet scales. Lyman makes both electronic and balance beam scales starting around $75. Two questions for the forum:

(1) How necessary is a scale in recreational shooting? Am I getting hung up on equipment when I should be working on technique instead i.e. just shooting more?

(2) If I buy a scale, do I go balance beam or electronic, what are the pros and cons?

Thanks,

Jamie

 

[Zonie]

IMO, a scale is a neat thing to play with but for just doing recreational shooting it really isn't worth the money. (If you were loading that new fangled smokeless stuff I would say having a good powder scale is almost an absolute necessity but we aren't loading smokeless powder.)

If you cast smooth, round, fully formed balls, they will shoot just fine for anything except champion target shooting.

 

[Cowboy]

On the plus side, the mould didn't cool between castings so I don't need to rush either.

I found wrinkles on all of the balls. They resembled paint sags, only much flatter of course

There are other flaws that look as if a drop or two of lead came in and congealed before the rest of the pour arrived. It's a two hole mould, I think I must have been sloppy in pouring the lead.

I went back to the balls from the first pour, and they also show flaws I obviously have to have hotter lead or keep the dipper and/or mould hotter.

After reading your posts a few things come to mind about the flaws you are noticing on your balls.

First off, you're using a Lyman mold. They are a very good quality mold. First thing I would check even before you start casting is both cavities to be sure they are very clean and rust free! You want to be sure that they don't have any traces of oil as well.

When you start to cast, you want to be sure your lead is Hot!!! Pure lead requires a very hot temp to properly fill the mold.

Want to be sure your ladle is also up to temp and hot as well! Just submerge it into the lead for a little bit. Check to see that the lead does not stick to it but pours off it like water.

Lastly you want your mold to be very hot as well! From the issues your having from what you've described, it's my opinion that any of the following things might be contributing factors.

1. Mold contaminated . Want to be sure cavities are clean. Rust and Oil free.

2. Mold/Lead/Ladle not up to temp! Wrinkles and the drippy paint looking surface's you are experiencing on your balls are a tell tale sign of the lead/mold not hot enough. You also noticed some solidification of the lead even before you can finish filling the cavity of your mold.

Lyman molds take longer to get up to temp. On the other end of the coin they will hold a steady temp once you get there. Lee aluminum molds get up to temp alot quicker but they also lose temp. quicker as well.

I submerge the tip of my mold and sprue plate handle in the lead for about 30 to 40 seconds until the lead just rolls right off the mold. Then I cast from 10 to 15 balls that I will not keep. By this time your mold should be plenty hot!

When I cast I fill one cavity at a time. I fill up the cavity leaving a small puddle of lead about the size of a dime over each sprue hole on the sprueplate. By doing this you will give your cavity the opportunity to suck up extra lead prior to solidifying. This will help guaranteeing that you get a complete fill of the ball.

When the puddle on top of the sprueplate solidifies I then give myself a four count prior to wacking the sprueplate open. That should give the ball plenty of time to solidify in the mold as well as helping to create yourself a good casting rhythm.

I then open the mold dropping the balls on a towel. I look at the over all appearance of the ball and also look at the freshly cut sprue area on the ball for any tiny pin hole. If I find one I immediately reject that ball. Back in the pot it goes.

In conclusion, You can get all the tips in the world from others, and it does help with the learning curb time, but the best teacher is experience! Just casting a hell of alot of balls. The more you cast the better your going to perfect your rhythm and the better your ball qualities are going to be.

Good luck with your future attempts my friend!

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Don Steele]

Jamie,
Just so you know there are other opinions out here, I'm going to respectfully disagree with Zonie on the scale question. Over a lot of years,casting bullets and RB's, reloading cartridges, shotgun shells AND muzzleloading BP..I've found a scale to be a critical piece of equipment. An inexpensive beam type scale is quite sufficient.
Your call, but when I'm talking to someone just starting out in any type of shooting sport a decent scale is ALWAYS on my list of recommended equipment to acquire.

 

[USMA65]

I do not cast my own balls, but have extensive experience casting gold. I have used both a torch to heat the gold to be cast, as well as an electronic gold oven. The mold had to be heated to about the same temperature as the gold that would be introduced. The gold had to be fluxed, to get rid of surface impurities. The gold was heated until it literally shimmied, and was white hot. I used centrifugal force to sling the gold into the mold. Any disturbance in the rotation of the mold caused the gold to not flow correctly. Any variation in temperature between the mold and the gold was a recipe for disaster. The gold was allowed to "cool" as the casting machine rotated. Removed and quenched too soon would cause a dimpling of the surface of the sprue. Remember that there is still molten (to a degree) metal inside the ball, sprue, whatever, until the model has cooled sufficiently. Any change to standard technique would adversely affect the final product. Repeatable technique is the key. Notice I did not say rushing technique. It must be consistent and repeatable.

 

[jamieorr]

I submerge the tip of my mold and sprue plate handle in the lead for about 30 to 40 seconds until the lead just rolls right off the mold. Then I cast from 10 to 15 balls that I will not keep. By this time your mold should be plenty hot!

When I cast I fill one cavity at a time. I fill up the cavity leaving a small puddle of lead about the size of a dime over each sprue hole on the sprueplate.

Thanks for your detailed analysis Cowboy. I'm taking note of all of it, but the above quotes are what I will focus on for now. I started casting almost as soon as the lead melted, probably not hot enough. I did preheat the dipper and mould, but the lead built up on the mould to about 1/8", so obviously it was all too cool.

My cast iron pot is pretty small, I can just fit the dipper and the bottom quarter of the mould into the lead to heat them. If this isn't enough to preheat properly then I may need a bigger pot. But first I'll try waiting longer before starting then work on the right rhythm, i.e. quicker.

We live and learn!

Jamie

 

[jamieorr]

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I'm going to work on my casting first until the results pass the eyeball test, then I'll decide on whether to buy a scale.

Somewhere in there I'll get out and shoot some of these balls. I'm not getting out to the range much just now, finding that frustrating. I envy the folks who live in the country and can whack a few tin cans from their doorstep!

 

[MountainRanger]

I always put my mould on my casting pot for a while to heat up. Occasionally, the first few balls are not up to par, so back into the pot they go. Hot lead and a good hot mould will give good castings.

 

[mooman76]

Electronic scales are faster and easier to use. They have also come down in price also for a good accurate one. That said I agree with Zonie. A scale is not needed. If they look good then shoot them. The average shooter doesn't shoot good enough to notice the difference. If you are going to get into competitive shooting, then by all means get one.