Brown Bess Options?

[FlinterNick]

It was nick discussing wheellocks and building a charleville from trs if memory serves. It was not repair work, it's not right to blame a manufacturer when someone else screwed up their stuff.

Nope still got me confused with someone else, again keep trolling.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Have you ever owned an India Musket?

Well I bid on a blunderbuss , made in India manure wall hanger £27!!! , idiot, 50 years later I rebuilt the manure imitation Bess action , sparks just about to set off BP. Last year made it into something more than a wall hanger , it’s ok I won’t say more than that around .577 bore, 1/4” wall heavy drawn pipe just a bit of fun,

Time for happy new year and hopefully peace in this world, so many lives cut short, happy to meet, sorry to part, but happy to meet again. May God and Allah bless you all , live in peace.

Wife 76 reading a book in background. Not bad from a distance but get the iron ready for close ups Seemed a good idea to marry her in 1968. Ha ha.

My Moslem friend said “ Gordon you won’t know you are dead “ ?????? It’s a bit upsetting. He was a non believer, nice chap, never met a nasty Moslem , strange ???

 

[Commodore Swab]

Nope still got me confused with someone else, again keep trolling.

I was talking to tenn, as he couldn't remember where.

However, since you want to clarify to correct my misunderstanding allow me a few examples so you can correct me.

For the wheel locks I’ve made i almost always forge new mainsprings, its not that the casted mainsprings can’t work, its a lot easier to manipulate the spring’s shape from a forged piece of spring steel, same with snap locks and some snaphaunces.

I would use the same pattern from the kit and make one by hand, not too difficult to do, 3D printer’s help a lot.

From this I gathered you felt the springs supplied were junk and needed replacement.

You can make it work. Dog Catch is pretty easy to install, just like a frizzen. Pan cover and internals are not that difficult. Internal springs are tough on this lock, again i would make my own from 1070,1084, 6150 or 15N20 stock.

The Wheel is what is a challenge, again i would make my own from tooling steel or 1095, cut the teeth with an angle grinder and file, i used a single cut file to cut the teeth.

From this I gathered you once again felt the springs but now also the wheel was junk.

I found that on some wheel lock kits, (same with some miqulete kits) making some parts from scratch just worked better for me. The 4130, and 4140 steel is very tough to work on for parts that pin together and latch together, often found on wheel locks, with mild steel these parts can be copied, forged and even milled to better quality.

I gathered the supplied parts weren't worth using so you had to make new ones.

I think part of the problem with some of the pantograph stock carvers is the tolerances are wider than carvers think, that and the quality of the wood that is being purchased whole sale.

From here I gathered the wood TRS was using wood that was a poor choice.

There are other examples but this gives one the idea that "india is junk" "pendersoli is expensive junk" (I don't think I need to show how one can get that opinion) and "TRS is expensive junk you have to pay to have built" Currently Dave is doing his TRS build and illustrating everything that needs "correcting"

My comment was regarding someone new to the forum and how if they read and research this is a conclusion they may come to. Nothing available that is good.

 

[FlinterNick]

I was talking to tenn, as he couldn't remember where.

However, since you want to clarify to correct my misunderstanding allow me a few examples so you can correct me.

From this I gathered you felt the springs supplied were junk and needed replacement.

From this I gathered you once again felt the springs but now also the wheel was junk.

I gathered the supplied parts weren't worth using so you had to make new ones.

From here I gathered the wood TRS was using wood that was a poor choice.

There are other examples but this gives one the idea that "india is junk" "pendersoli is expensive junk" (I don't think I need to show how one can get that opinion) and "TRS is expensive junk you have to pay to have built" Currently Dave is doing his TRS build and illustrating everything that needs "correcting"

My comment was regarding someone new to the forum and how if they read and research this is a conclusion they may come to. Nothing available that is good.

Here we go trolling like usual, and you replied to me not tengun.

And what exactly does this have to do with the MO’s question about how choosing the best brown bess?

I mean i get that you don’t like me personally, but copying and pasting comments i have made does what exactly for your ego. ?
s

All of your assumptions and gatherings are of your own surmise, especially when you copy and paste portions of a statement to win an argument, very pathetic and shameful.

Chad, sell more Indian guns, you’re way out of your league on this forum, you’ve taken pirate re-enacting way too far.

Last time you tolled so hard, you found my eBay account and copy and pasted a lock i was selling, you have a problem sir and I should warn you about this, there are consequence.

Smokey Plainsman I recommend you close this thread, it has outlived its purpose and has been hijacked by a very sad and lonely internet nerd(s).

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I'm sorry I missed all of this. NOT!
That 1717 looks like a cartoon of an original. No comparison.
I have had the great fortune to handle many original guns. I still do. These Indian guns are cartoon caricatures of what they are supposed to represent. If you can live with that then they are perfect for you. Personally, I could never do it.
Although I personally like flintlock military guns I don’t have any use for them. I prefer sporting guns so these India things aren't even remotely interesting.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Here we go trolling like usual, and you replied to me not tengun.

And what exactly does this have to do with the MO’s question about how choosing the best brown bess?

I mean i get that you don’t like me personally, but copying and pasting comments i have made does what exactly for your ego. ?
s

All of your assumptions and gatherings are of your own surmise, especially when you copy and paste portions of a statement to win an argument, very pathetic and shameful.

Chad, sell more Indian guns, you’re way out of your league on this forum, you’ve taken pirate re-enacting way too far.

Last time you tolled so hard, you found my eBay account and copy and pasted a lock i was selling, you have a problem sir and I should warn you about this, there are consequence.

Smokey Plainsman I recommend you close this thread, it has outlived its purpose and has been hijacked by a very sad and lonely internet nerd(s).

So I did or did not get the wrong impression?

It is relevant to the topic because when someone asks for options and basically every option is a bad choice in some way or another that is less than helpful.

I can see that your argument has degraded to insults yet again.

 

[rickystl]

The best brown Bess’s out of India I’ve ever seen were sold by Henry Krank, most were third models.

stocked in Indian Beech, and the lock is excellent.

These were made in the 1970’s, and consequently he manufacture was shut down because of Indian gun law changes.

If my memory serves, wasn't there a First Model, Long Land musket copy made for a short while during the 1970's ? I remember seeing it in the Dixie catalog back then. They were made/imported from the U.K. Very expensive back then.

Rick

 

[FlinterNick]

If my memory serves, wasn't there a First Model, Long Land musket copy made for a short while during the 1970's ? I remember seeing it in the Dixie catalog back then. They were made/imported from the U.K. Very expensive back then.

Rick

Yes, for a short while they were direct sales from coach and harness co.

Then Dixie Gun Works took over the project, locks were Italian made, Dixie has the molds, patterns etc, stopped making them shortly after the bicentennial.

They were ok reproductions, stocked in beech and walnut died, barrels were straight, not much taper.

I’ve seen one that was restocked in English walnut and had some of reeves ghoring’s hardware, I’m pretty sure it was a kit ravensheer project, very nice.

 

[FlinterNick]

I'm sorry I missed all of this. NOT!
That 1717 looks like a cartoon of an original. No comparison.
I have had the great fortune to handle many original guns. I still do. These Indian guns are cartoon caricatures of what they are supposed to represent. If you can live with that then they are perfect for you. Personally, I could never do it.
Although I personally like flintlock military guns I don’t have any use for them. I prefer sporting guns so these India things aren't even remotely interesting.

And it’s about 4lbs over weight, (more like 6lbs), mostly wood. I had the pleasure of reviewing an original 1717 85% complete, was missing the rammer, total weight was around 7 1/2 lbs. very gracefully made musket.

 

[rickystl]

Yes, for a short while they were direct sales from coach and harness co.

Then Dixie Gun Works took over the project, locks were Italian made, Dixie has the molds, patterns etc, stopped making them shortly after the bicentennial.

They were ok reproductions, stocked in beech and walnut died, barrels were straight, not much taper.

I’ve seen one that was restocked in English walnut and had some of reeves ghoring’s hardware, I’m pretty sure it was a kit ravensheer project, very nice.

OK. Thanks. Nice to know my memory has not completely vanished yet. LOL

Rick

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Seven pages of the pros and cons of what is available out there in the way of a repro Bess seems to be a thorough covering of the topic.

LD