Bottom pour vs ladle casting

[Oldnamvet]

There are two camps on this and I am in neither one but I did wonder how they compared FOR ME. So I set up my bottom pour pot and after getting temperatures of the lead and mold equilibrated, I would pour two bullets using bottom pour followed by two bullets using the ladle, etc alternating until I had 30 bullets from each technique. Visually, they all looked the same. During the process I found the ladle quicker and less messy. I had frequent overflows from the bottom pour spout. I had the pot almost full of lead so it squirted out very rapidly from the spout. I also had to stop after every cast for a few seconds to tweak the valve to stop the drips. After the bullets had cooled I weighed each batch to see how consistent they were. Same lead batch, same mold, same time of casting, etc. so I figured that they bullets should be the same.
final result was:
Bottom pour: average wt.= 199.2 Std dev = 1.6
Ladle pour: average wt. = 200.8 Std dev = 0.62

The big difference was in the standard deviation of the weights. Bullet weights ranged from 196.4 to 201.0 grains for the bottom pour and from 199.9 to 201.8 for the ladle cast. My only thought was that the very rapid pour from the bottom pour entrained a small amount of air in some of the bullets. Pouring in from the ladle, although done rapidly, was less likely to entrap air. I would have measured the front band of the bullet but the batteries were dead in my micrometer. But I answered the question for myself (and myself only) in that I get better consistency and a more complete mold fill if I use a ladle. The bottom pour is still handy when I want to empty the pot for storage. Just put the ingot mold underneath and it is full in no time.

 

[jamesthomas]

I use a ladle. I bought a Lee 20# pot made for ladle casting. If I do my part I can get my rbs to weigh within a grn. My brother has a bottom pour and it leaks at times and is a pain to cast .36 cal. rbs. I think he has started using a ladle with it instead of the bottom pour.

 

[cynthialee]

I needed to read this! Thank you.
The fella at the local store tried to sell me a bottom pour pot yesterday when he saw me buying a ladle. Everything you said about that bottom pour was things I was worried about and he told me was no issue. I didn't buy the thing and I am glad I didn't.

 

[CrackStock]

I am a believer in the dipper method. It has served me quite well for 15 years while friends struggled with the pout spouts. I know there are tricks to get them to work, but just too much sugar for a nickel here.

CS

 

[Idaho Ron]

For big bullets the ladle is the only way to go. Ron

 

[necchi]

Now that was a test well done, Thank you.

I've only been casting 5-6yrs, and just always used a pot an ladel.

I guess in the years I've been reading forums I've seen enough fellers have trouble with the bottom pour I'm not real interested in getting one.
Maybe it's easier with a learning curve to use one,, but I'm content where I"m at.
Olde Reliable is hard to beat.

 

[Bill Hall]

Never used a pour spout, or a commercial lead pot for that matter. But I can say I've never had a ladle clog up, or drip, or get stuck open, or stuck closed, so....

It seems to me a ladle just has more control and versatility. I like to pour with my mold over the lead pot, so any run-off falls right back into the pot. I can pour until I get the exact size puddle I want over the mold hole. And I would guess it's just easier to hit the hole, especially if the mold has a double cavity. And I'm also guessing a ladle would be faster.

But, like I said, I never used a pour spout, so take it for what's it's worth. Bill

 

[RADeO]

I don't care to use bottom-pour pots because of spout leaks. Tried two different Lee pots and a Saeco unit and they all had drippy or outright leaky spouts. Seems like I spent almost as much time maintaining the spouts as actually casting balls.:cursing:

The old Ideal ladle is by far the more trouble-free method for me. :thumbsup:

 

[Rat Trapper]

How many of you are using the Lyman dipper? I have one that I bought back in 1970.

 

[ihuntsnook]

Had a bottom pour Lee pot for years. Just replaced it with cast iron stovetop pot and ladle from TOW. Never did make a decent minie ball with the bottom pour.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I used a Lyman bottom pour happily for many years. Sadly, it rusted apart in a bad 'dry' storage unit.
I bought a Lee bottom pour and it has been a major headache. El Cheapo. I now use it only for dipping with a Lyman ladle.
Quality of balls is same as far as I can tell.
I am not happy with the Lee bottom pour.

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[BrownBear]

Great test ONV, and thanks for posting it. The LEE bottom pour is awfully fiddly, fer sure.

One thing I can add to the discussion- For 72 cal and larger balls, I prefer a larger ladle than the Lyman. Just seems to go better with a bigger "reservoir" of lead. I'm using a large plumbers ladle (must hold close to three pounds) for casting fishing weights up to 32 ounces, and for convenience I use that to cast larger RBs and conicals.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Thats the same pot that I have. I always keep a large pan handy in case the valve lets go. Learned that lesson when I ended up with the same scenario that you have a picture of. Only difference was mine was sitting on a wood table instead of on my table saw. Amazing how fast they can empty themselves when you don't want them to or get plugged up when you want them to empty themselves.

 

[BrownBear]

One "trick" I found for LEE spouts that start leaking:

Keep a pair of pliers handy. If it starts to drip too much, tap on the end of the spigot shaft with your billet while turning the shaft a little with your pliers.

Often a chunk-o-gunk gets hung in between the shaft and spout, or the shaft itself sticks a little, and the tap-twist clears it up before you have a big mess.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have a RCBS bottom pour pot that I got about 1982, and it has never given me problems. Most LEE products that I have ever bought have given me problems.

 

[roundball]

I used to think that after I retired I'd have enough time to consider taking up something like casting my own PRBs.
But after reading threads like these over the years...LOL...and considering how low cost Eddie May's cast balls are compared to all the casting set up costs, dedicated space, scrounging lead, etc...I've kind of let go of that idea
:grin:

 

[Strawstalker/NM]

I have a RCBS bottom pour that I have had for over 20 years. I have had zero problems casting round balls sizes .310 to .600. Strawstalker

 

[htredneck]

I learned with a ladle several years ago and it has served me well. Don't really see any reason to change now...

 

[Bob Riegl]

I can understand your frustration with the LEE pot. However your problem is obviously (to me any way)the pouring rod which is activated by the lever. Clean up the mess and save the lead, cut it into smaller pieces obviously. Connect your pot and turn to #3-4 on the gauge and when the pouring rod ( I don't know a better word for it) comes loose---you will notice a slot cut on the top of the rod---use a wide enough blade screw driver and turn this back and forth until it seats---use this to adjust the rod until you don't get any more lead dripping ( or a minimal amount ).I think this will fix your problem IMHO---it works for me.--- :thumbsup: --"Doc"

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only problem with Bottom-pour pots is that people expect everything to be PERFECT from the factory, relating to things made for guns, when nothing else is expected to be so. Even new cars are " Prepped" by the dealer before being turned over to the buyers.

I have found that the hole in the spout is often not fully Round- ie. its cast, but not then drilled nor reamed out to finish it. Running a drill bit thru the spout's hole to round and smooth it out helps eliminate the drips.

The drill bit also removes any casting burrs or slag sometime found in the spout, which causes drips.

If you remove the steel rod that plug the spout, you may find that it has deep tool cutting marks, that cause it to not fit the spout snug enough to plug it. Polish and smooth that tapered end of the rod so it works better, will also stop the drips.

Put a steel, iron, brass, or thick aluminum plate( scrap yards for pennies) under the pot to catch and drips or spills. In most pots, the stand may be too tall, and you will need to make or fashion a wood block to put under the spout so that you do not strain wrist and arm muscles holding up a heavy mold close to the mouth of the spout. This quickly becomes apparent when using multiple cavity Gang molds.

As for pouring too much lead, its expected to happen when using a new mold. As you get used to how much time it takes to fill the cavity, you find yourself able to spill less. The spills are knocked off the mold and dropped back into the pot. I keep a pair of needle-nose pliers next to my t on the bench to do this. I usually wait and do it at the same time I am adding more lead ingots to the pot.

The hole in the cut-off plate on the top of your mold also controls how fast the cavity can be filled with molten lead. Don't hesitate to open that hole up a few drill bit sized to speed the pour. Use a metal Countersink to reset the angle of the taper in the top of the plate, and to make the cutting edge on the bottom side of that cut-off plate sharper to get cleanly removed sprues. I had to do that with a good, STEEL, Lyman mold for a .45 cal. 300 grain bullet, to get the top of the cavity filled properly. Doing so also eliminated differences in the weighed bullets.

There are casting problems when using a ladle, too, but all are a function of casting technique, and how hot the mold is kept between pours.

Expect a "Learning curve" with all products. And, understand that casting balls and bullets with a ladle is different than casting using that bottom pour pot. The complainers don't seem to want to understand that. :surrender: :thumbsup: