bore buttons

[Fran49829]

I have a Traditions Frontier Hawken (1991) 50 cal, 1:66 twist, .495 round balls, .018 bore butter pillow tick patches, red hot nipple, #10 Rem caps, 777 FFG, globe front sight, and rear peep.

Before today I have limited myself to 50 yard shots on deer. For hunting deer I used 68 grs of RS. Round balls punch clean through on double lung shots. More powder opened up groups alot as the patches were kind of burned out.

Today I tried 70 grs of 777 FFG ( equal to about 80 grs of RS) and put a 50 cal bore button (felt wad) over the powder. I got 3" groups at 50 yards and 6" groups at 100 yards. If I am able to duplicate these results over and over I should be able to take a deer at 75 or 100 yards if it isn't windy. I am happy.

I removed the insert from the front globe sight and was able to shoot really well without it. Target aquisition is really fast and easy without the insert.

At 75 yards I fired 70 grs of 777 FFG at a 6" diameter 3/8" thick steel swinging target made for up to 44 mag ( I think it was a Birchwood Casey). The round ball put a permanent dent in the steel and bulged out the opposite side. Oh yea, the round ball has more than enough power.

I have and shoot 2 inlines and this year got my deer at 150 yards with a fancy 300 gr Barnes MZ copper bullet. But I will tell all that shooting deer with round balls is alot more fun and alot more interesting.

Lesson for today seems to be to try bore buttons if you want to increase powder.


Fran

 

[rabjr]

Bore buttons definitely do help. I don't shoot any of mine without one or some kind of a wad between the powder and patch. Glad to see you wanting to use that Traditions over those inlines. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Lesson for today seems to be to try bore buttons if you want to increase powder.

Agree 100%...use them with all my hunting loads

 

[Fran49829]

Is there any chance that the bore butter lube on the bore buttons could soak into the powder and cause the rifle to lose velocity during a 1 day hunt?

Also, would unlubed bore buttons work just as well?

Fran

 

[roundball]

Is there any chance that the bore butter lube on the bore buttons could soak into the powder and cause the rifle to lose velocity during a 1 day hunt?

Also, would unlubed bore buttons work just as well?
Fran

The lube used in Oxyoke Wonderwads is called "Wonderlube 1000", Oxyoke's brand name.
(Oxyoke also agreed to let TC sell them under their label and TCs calls their lube Natural Lube 1000).

The lube is a natural lube containing no petroleum and does not harm powder at all...ie: I've hunted with the wads on the powder for hours and know that it has no effect.

The wads provide a few benefits, one of which is to act as a firewall to protect the patch from heavy powder charges burning it; The wads are impregnated with this lube and introduces it into the bore by the heat & pressure of ignition, keeps the fouling soft so you can reload very easily, and without necessarily wiping between every shot; These lubed wads also provide a better gas seal than just the cloth patch by itself.

A plain wad would probably improve sealing but I don't know if it would seal as well as a lube saturated wad, although it would still protect the patch; However, the biggest loss would be that it would provide no lube benefit to the bore;

 

[rabjr]

I would not worry at all about what little lube is on those bore buttons effecting your powder.

 

[Fran49829]

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it won't cause problems. I've been shooting this rifle for 17 years and just in the last week have I achieved 100% reliability and the ability to shoot 70 grs of 777 FFG thanks to those little buttons.

Fran

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I would not worry at all about what little lube is on those bore buttons effecting your powder.

you right Swamprat
I don't use over powder wads anymore now that I use a .028 to .030 patch but when I did I tested rifles that had been loaded for some time to see any change of "point of aim" I never found any signs of powder fouling.
:thumbsup:

 

[Russianblood]

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it won't cause problems. I've been shooting this rifle for 17 years and just in the last week have I achieved 100% reliability and the ability to shoot 70 grs of 777 FFG thanks to those little buttons.

Fran

I thought 777 says not to use any lube.

 

[Fran49829]

Previously in this post I stated something which has turned out to be wrong. I thought 777 created 15% more velocity than pyrodex but it is only 4.6%. 777 creates around 12%-15% more velocity than black powder according to Hodgdon. So my 60 grs of 777 is equal to around 63 grs of pyrodex, not 70 grs.

Fran

 

[Rat Trapper]

I noticed a big improvement in accuracy with both my 50 & 54 TC Hawkens when I used the felt wads. I've left my rifle loaded for days on end and it still fired and the deer ended up getting it's first ride in a truck.

 

[tx50cal]

Bore buttons are a needed item with heavy loads and any patch less that.015. I found out the hard way that 100 gr FFFg and a .015 patch is not going to work in my rifle. I shreaded every patch until I started to use bore buttons. I now use ticking with the bore button and get exceptional accuracy.

 

[roundball]

Bore buttons are a needed item with heavy loads and any patch less that.015. I found out the hard way that 100 gr FFFg and a .015 patch is not going to work in my rifle. I shreaded every patch until I started to use bore buttons. I now use ticking with the bore button and get exceptional accuracy.

Totally agree...and sometimes even a .015" won't make it when using max loads of 3F.

Also, the heavy powder charges shredding patches often results in some people mistakenly believing that their heavy powder charges don't work in "fast 1:48" twist barrels" because the PRBs are "skipping" the rifling, and the sharp edges of the rifling are shredding the patches.

A simple Oxyoke wonderwad as a firewall proves the PRBs are not "skipping the rifling and shredding the patches"...

 

[blueridger]

Roundball:
I'm shooting 72 grains of FFFg with a ..15 patch. I've never even heard of these bore buttons before. Is this something I would need, or is it only useful for heavy loads?

 

[roundball]

Roundball:
I'm shooting 72 grains of FFFg with a ..15 patch. I've never even heard of these bore buttons before. Is this something I would need, or is it only useful for heavy loads?

'Bore button' is sort of a slang term like 'bore butter' is...refers to 1/8" thick wool over-powder wads injected with bore butter, that Oxyoke invented 15-20 years ago and marketed them under the name "Oxyoke Wonderwads"...some folks started referring to them as bore buttons.

As the size of powder charges increase, sometimes you can reach a point where the fire is so intense that the patch burns/fails, causing a loss of accuracy...over-powder wads act like a firewall and protect the patches completely...and OP wads usually tighten group sizes as well by providing a better gas seal and shot-to-shot consistency.

I use them in all my max/near max powder charge hunting loads...but haven't personally ever needed them with lighter 70grn charges...a well lubed .015" or .018" pillow ticking patch has always done fine by itself for me. If your patches look fine with what you're using and are not coming out shredded looking, and you have good accuracy I wouldn't worry about it...would just be an unnecessary added expense for target shooting

 

[blueridger]

Roundball:

Thanks. Actually, I both targer shoot and hunt with 72 grains. I've killed 3 deer with that load, and none ran anywhere. I was just wondering if I was missing out on something.

 

[tx50cal]

Just a thought. I personally think accuracy is more important than power. At the correct distance light charges will dispatch an animal, but if you can't put the ball where it needs to go than it doesn't matter how much powder is used. 72 Gr.FFFg is about the equivelant to 90 gr FFg. I personally feel this would work out to about 75-80 yards.

 

[blueridger]

Just a thought. I personally think accuracy is more important than power. At the correct distance light charges will dispatch an animal, but if you can't put the ball where it needs to go than it doesn't matter how much powder is used. 72 Gr.FFFg is about the equivelant to 90 gr FFg. I personally feel this would work out to about 75-80 yards.

I agree totally. That's exactly why I use 72 grains of FFG.

 

[roundball]

Just a thought. I personally think accuracy is more important than power. At the correct distance light charges will dispatch an animal, but if you can't put the ball where it needs to go than it doesn't matter how much powder is used. 72 Gr.FFFg is about the equivelant to 90 gr FFg. I personally feel this would work out to about 75-80 yards.

I agree totally. That's exactly why I use 72 grains of FFG.

:grin: You two make it sound like anything more powerful than 72 grains is somehow automatically inaccurate...nothing could be further from the truth as there's nothing intrinsically inaccurate about max powder charges...they'll put them right where they need to be all day long.

There are other factors at work if an individual has difficulty getting accuracy from a max powder charge...inapproproate PB combo, patch failure from large powder charges, recoil sensitivity, flinching, etc, but the poor accuracy is not just a matter of max powder charges being inaccurate.
:thumbsup:

 

[tx50cal]

You are correct Roundball, some rifles will shoot very accuratly at max charge, IF the right combination of patch, ball and lube are used. I had to find that combo myself like everyone else. You can never have too much power, as long as it's safe. To me extra power in the right spot means extra insurance.