Black MZ

[don hepler]

There has been a lot of discussion about, Alliant's Black MZ, substitute powder, but I am having good luck, with this powder. My first success with this powder, was in my 32 cal. rifle. It was accurate and I could shot, shot-after-shot, and not have any problem with loading. Two days ago, I decided to try it in my 50 cal. GM barrel. I shot groups averaging 1 1/2" at 50 yds. using 85 grs., a .022 patch/TC lube, .495 ball. With 64 year old eyes, that ain't bad.

The powder must be compressed, as stated by Alliant. It fouls some the first shot, but seems, to stay that same consistent shot after shot.

The purpose for buying it, was just curiosity, but after the 32 results, I was sold. Now I'm even more impressed. I still use Goex, in my flintlocks, but for small caliber rifles, it's hard to beat. The real black, may have yielded the same results, in the 50, but I would have to do a lot of swabbing. I haven't run it through the Crony, so I don't know about the velocity. And clean up was easy.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I wish it came in a 3f granulation size, I have trouble getting it flow through my flask.

It's expensive.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I have not tried Black MZ in a percussion, so I trust your comment. I gather that you don't use it in a flint gun or as priming powder.

Some time back there was a hunting article in MuzzleBlasts about using one of their products as priming powder. I asked for and received samples to time. As a priming powder it was almost twice as slow as Goex Cannon grade. IIRC Goex cannon was .080 and Black MZ was .14. It was the first priming powder where I could watch the sparks "play" in the pan before it ignited.

My gut says that it would be hard to light as a barrel charge, but I have not tried this. I'd load the barrel with it but still use a good grade of ffffg black powder in the pan. Please let us know if anyone has done this.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have tried it in a flintlock and it is slow, and does not work well.
I even crushed it to make priming powder and it still is miles away from real BP.

It does work extremely well in BP shotgun cartriges, and is the best use I have found for it.

 

[Rokon]

I've been using Black MZ for competition and hunting in both percussions and flintlocks.
The original product was Black Mag. Alliant was in the process of obtaining a licensing agreement when the factory went sky high and lawyering began. Alliant would still like to produce the original Black Mag rather than Black MZ.
Black MZ comes in one granulation and is "dusty". Yet, it is a very consistent propellant and delivers impressive accuracy. I load it in .25 and .30 caliber percussion rifles through blunderbusses with great success. IT IS NOT A PRIMING POWDER. Black Mag sent me some "priming powder" to test and it fouled the pan, flint and cock terribly--totally unsuitable! The only downside I've experienced is clumping if Black MZ is exposed to moisture. Hey, I like BP and use it alot, but Black MZ is a really fine propellant and very accurate in my competition guns.

 

[don hepler]

I don't think I would even consider Black MZ, for a flintlock. Where it really works, is in small calibers. I started out using Goex fff in my 32 but the small caliber, with small ram rod, was a real pain. I discovered the Black MZ and it loaded easier and gave exceptional accuracy. I also found it to be accurate in my 36 cal. Douglas barrel, long rifle. I don't have any small caliber flintlocks. But I was surprised to get the accuracy out of the 50 a cap lock rifle. My larger caliber rifles are flintlocks, so I'll stick with Goex, for them and use the Black MZ in the small cap lock rifles. Oh, I forgot to mention the 32 has a rather ruff bore, and can not tolerate much fowling. The Black MZ doesn't build up with fowling, another reason why it works.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I've been using Black MZ for competition and hunting in both percussions and flintlocks.
The original product was Black Mag. Alliant was in the process of obtaining a licensing agreement when the factory went sky high and lawyering began. Alliant would still like to produce the original Black Mag rather than Black MZ.
Black MZ comes in one granulation and is "dusty". Yet, it is a very consistent propellant and delivers impressive accuracy. I load it in .25 and .30 caliber percussion rifles through blunderbusses with great success. IT IS NOT A PRIMING POWDER. Black Mag sent me some "priming powder" to test and it fouled the pan, flint and cock terribly--totally unsuitable! The only downside I've experienced is clumping if Black MZ is exposed to moisture. Hey, I like BP and use it alot, but Black MZ is a really fine propellant and very accurate in my competition guns.

Ok! so... just how are you using it in flintlocks that it works so good?

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I've been using Black MZ for competition and hunting in both percussions and flintlocks.
The original product was Black Mag. Alliant was in the process of obtaining a licensing agreement when the factory went sky high and lawyering began. Alliant would still like to produce the original Black Mag rather than Black MZ.
Black MZ comes in one granulation and is "dusty". Yet, it is a very consistent propellant and delivers impressive accuracy. I load it in .25 and .30 caliber percussion rifles through blunderbusses with great success. IT IS NOT A PRIMING POWDER. Black Mag sent me some "priming powder" to test and it fouled the pan, flint and cock terribly--totally unsuitable! The only downside I've experienced is clumping if Black MZ is exposed to moisture. Hey, I like BP and use it alot, but Black MZ is a really fine propellant and very accurate in my competition guns.

The product I received was packaged as BlackMag "Flash". Quoting from the package:

BlackMag "Flash" *Refined BlackMag XP, Granulated & blended to be used in the Flashpans of old and new style Flintlock Muzzleloaders. Caution Do Not use "Flash Powder in the bores of any muzzleloader, It is intended to be used ONLY in the pans of Flintlock Muzzleloaders.

I was told that "Flash" was simply BlackMag XP ground to priming granulation. Is this the product you got? Because of product names, I'm unsure.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Rokon]

It was Pletch and it was worthless.

The advantage I see in the original Black Mag formulation is clean, uniform grain size. Alliant tested it for pressure and overall performance and still, I think, hopes to be able produce it when the lawyering dies down.

 

[Darto]

I love and use Black MZ. I hated Black MAG. Hawken, matchlock, double 12 gauge percussion, flintlock French fusil. Use duplex loads however. Would only use real black if it was still legal in my area.

For revolver cartridges I use APP fffG, because it does not foul the interior of the gun any worse than smokeless. It will never be popular because it is very weak and you lose a whole lot of feet per second. About 20-25% accdg to some guys who have chrony, which I don't. But cleanup is so nice with APP (easier than real BP).

 

[Rokon]

A final word on Black MZ. If you run it through a BP powder measure like Lyman's or an old B&M, the dust in the grains will finally win out--the dust is abrasive.

I use an old B&M measure and need to take it apart and clean the sliding surfaces after running Black MZ through it.

 

[graybeard]

I tried Black Mag years ago after reading its self-promo that it works in flintlocks. Not in my T/C Hawken flinter it didn't! :cursing: I e-mailed and called to ask if I was doing something wrong, but never got an answer. Decided to use it up in a percussion gun, but found it had clumped and wouldn't go off at all. graybeard

 

[AZbpBurner]

I got a can of Black MZ last year for cap & ball revolver use. As already mentioned, it is kinda weak, and takes a maximum volume load to work satisfactorily. I didn't see a lot of difference in fouling between MZ and Pyrodex, and I've gone over 75 rounds with Pyrodex and lightly greased paper wads with no appreciable fouling in my ROA.

In a percussion .50 cal, Black MZ performs just fine, but as long as it is pricier than either BP or Pyrodex, I see no advantage in using it.

I also ran some thru my .54 flint Deerstalker with a 5 gr BP kicker, and with some minor powder measure adjustment, it is every bit as accurate as Pyrodex or BP. I never considered trying it for pan priming.

If it were the only muzzleloading propellant available on the planet, it will do a fine job - as long as my BP priming and kicker charge supply holds out. But until that day, BP and Pyrodex are cheaper and already do what I expect them to.

 

[don hepler]

I live within an hours drive of the Alliant plant, so I am favoring products made in my area. This probably explains, why it's much cheaper here, than other places. But no matter where it's made, I would not use it, if it did not yield good results. I don't use Black MZ, in flintlocks and haven't used it much in pistols, but for small caliber rifles, especially with rough bores, if just out performs the other powders, that I have tried.

 

[swathdiver]

Wondering aloud, if we don't talk about inlines (fake BP rifles) why do we talk about fake black powders? :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

The forum allows discussion of the fake black powders for several reasons.

The various synthetic black powders are loaded the same as original black powder.

They function almost the same as the original black powder (although not as well in a flintlock).

Most importantly, for many of our members, real black powder is not available in their areas.
Instead of telling these people that they cannot discuss the only powders that is available to them, we have decided that they can talk about them.

Yes, we are aware that real black powder can be ordered via the internet but we also recognize that many people cannot afford to invest large amounts of their money to buy real black powder for their hobby.

I suppose we could ban discussions of the synthetic black powder pellets as they are not traditional, but if we did that, no one could discuss the many negatives they have when compared with traditional loading, loose powder loads.

On the slim chance that some powder company is able to invent a synthetic black powder that actually duplicates real black powder, including its ability to work exactly the same in a flintlock, no one would be able to tell the rest of us about its existence.

For the people who are offended by discussions about the various synthetic black powders, I suggest they simply skip over them and read the other, more traditional topics.

 

[swathdiver]

Good points Zonie.

I scrape and scrimp to buy the real stuff online. The closest dealer is over 2 hours away and he doesn't have the variety or low prices to make the drive worthwhile unfortunately.

 

[don hepler]

In my OP, I tried to explain the reason for buying the sub powder. I bought a 32 cal rifle, and I knew the barrel was worn and rusty. I had hoped to clean it up, but it turned out to be worse than I expected. The tiny ramrod, required for a 32 would not let me seat the ball, due to the fowling of the BP. I was about to give up, and send it off to have it bored to a 36. Having seen the Black MZ, at Sportman"s Warehouse, I figured it was worth a try. Bottom line....it saved me from having to rebore the rifle, and put an old traditional rifle back into action. And, besides, my Flintlock's eat up my black powder, and that's the only thing, "THEY" like.