BEST and WORST Actor in a Role of Ours?

[Alden]

We did go off on an interesting tangent about this in another thread, sorry, but I think it's fun enough to revive...

Who would you say was the best and who was the worst actor in what movie roles including muzzleloaders?


I suppose I have to give the "best" nod to Daniel Day-Lewis in Last of the Mohicans. The prior versions get worse the farther back you go right to the silent film era which is downright creepy, and I dont mean in a good, entertaining, way.

As for "worst" I suppose I have to say Charleton Heston in Mountain Men. The entire experience was friggin' unwatchable. So much so that back in the day I gave away the VCR tape I had of it and I refused to so much as rewind, let alone finish watching, it. SO bad!

Dishonerable mentions have to go to

• Robert Redford in Jeremiah Johnson as that protagonist
• John Wayne as Davy Crockett in his The Alamo
• Sam Elliott mumbling his way around Gettysburg as Brig. Gen. John Buford
• This is where we left off: Spencer Tracy miscast as Maj. Robert Rogers in Northwest Passage which was also a terrible title to have adopted when it had nothing to do with the movie

Yours!?

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I give the best actor laurels to Wes Studi as Magua in "Last of the Mohicans". I've no worst actor nominees. I liked Spencer Tracy as Rogers in "Northwest Passage" but I thought the Rangers' light green elf suits were pretty comical!

 

[satx78247]

100% AGREED on Wes Studi as Magua, the Huron in THE LAST of the MOHICANS
but tied with
Laurence Harvey as LTC William B. Travis in THE ALAMO (1960) as THE BEST.
and
Brian Keith as Henry Frapp in THE MOUNTAIN MEN as THE WORST.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[Captjoel]

You fella's have got to take "The Mountain Men" with a grain of salt and enjoy it for what it was made for and meant to be.....A comedy! I can understand that many would like to see reality and historical correctness every time, but movies are entertainment first and foremost. There are certain actors that I like very much and I will go out of my way to watch their movies. It seems that now days I cannot even put a face to a name among the various actors that Hollywood is putting out on the silver screen. Getting back to Alden's purpose for his post, just take the many stabs at the movie: Robin Hood. Errol Flynn's rendition back in the late 30's was made in pure light heartedness with a comical twist. It's rare for the times Technicolor format was truly wonderous. Being a fan of Flynn, Allen Hale Sr., Basil Rathbone, and the great Claude Rains, I find this movie very good entertainment and can watch it over and over again. Then you go to Kevin Cosner's version and have a totally different movie with perhaps a lot more period correctness in regard to costuming and such. It is on a more serious note and is IMO an OK watch if you don't mind sitting for the extended run time. I can take that as my butt has callouses from sitting for days on end in my deer blind. Then there is "Robin Hood, Men in Tights", Oh boy! Comedy yes but not quite to my liking. Seems that the guy from the "Princess Bride" has had a very hard time in moving his career along. I did like the Princess movie however. Now we have recently been given Robin Hood with Russell Crowe, Cate Blanchett, and Max von Sydow. Perhaps more to the liking for the HC PC crowd. I found it to be very well done and have even bought a copy for my library. :shocked2:

 

[Rick Boylan]

For me the best was Daniel Day Lewis as Hawkeye in LOTM.

Worst was Burt Lancaster in The Kentuckian. I watched the whole film on Youtube and I don't remember him doing anything more than just carrying his rifle around like some useless prop.

Another one that I feel is a bad character in a flintlock related movie/show is the kid on the Daniel Boone TV series. I love the show, but he was only there to attract the young kids. He was an annoying little cuss.

 

[Treestalker]

I must choose Madeleine Stowe as Cora Munro in Last of the Mohicans as best actress, and Mike Phillips as Sachem as best actor,(along with Wes Studi as Magua).
Paul Benedict as the Reverend Lindquist in Jeremiah Johnson as the worst actor. Many other good and bad actors come to mind, but these were exceptional. Treestalker.

 

[thecapgunkid]

Slap my face and call me anti gun, but this appears to be a really subjective post.

Daniel Day Lewis???? Really? Alden...Alden...Alden...

The best way to watch The Last Of The Mo's is to turn off the sound whenever there is dialog. That's a great movie to watch if you want to look at stuff, tho.

Wes Studi is pretty good in anything he does.

Try Henry Fonda in Drums Along the Mohawk. As a matter of fact, try anybody in the movie.

Notwithstanding the difference in being a purist for detail and a romanticist I guess a body is a lot more merciful toward Heston and Tracy if you were alive during or just after the Second World War and understood the values of the day. In those days, before YouTube, you were grateful for just about anything on Pre-industrial America because you had nothing at your fingertips. What's your take on these?

Clark Gable in Across The Wide Missouri
Kirk Douglas in The Big Sky
Gary Cooper in Unconquered
Hank Worden ( Poor Devil) in The Big Sky
Walter Brennan in Northwest Passage

So I tell you what...how about considering how good or bad some of these guys were by some of their endearing lines...

A Starving Walter Brennan to Spencer Tracy when told that food was only a few miles away as the crow flies...

"But Major, we ain't crows."

Then there's Del Queu in Jeremiah Johnson, buried up to his neck by the Crows...

"I got a fine horse under me."

And one of my favorites, Will Geer in Jeremiah Johnson when asked if the Elk they're hunting will see their legs behind the horse...


"Elk Don't know how many feet a horse have"

Alden, Thanks a lot for this post. Great Idea. Feast yore eyes

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Our entire sport might not even be here were it not for him...

 

[Artificer]

As far as a nomination for the worst.....

About 2 to 3 weeks ago there was I thought a 1950's version of "The Last of the Mohicans" on one of the movie channels on TV. I have tried to google it and can't find it. (It was not the 1936 version with Randolph Scott.)

In that version, Hawkeye comes off as not much more than a dolt and the British Officer is the hero. Did anyone see that or know what the movie title actually was?

As far as "The Mountain Men," I always wanted to know what Charlton Heston ate or drank to keep up with Running Moon !!

Gus

 

[David Snellen]

Gentlemen,
Yes, it all comes down to opinion, but that's the fun of it on a question like this.
For me-
Robert Duvall IS the best Gen. Robert E. Lee in Gds and Generals.
DDLewis was great in LOTM.

Now... not to start a war, or get tarred and feathered.....
I grew up watching Grizzly Adams. That helped to advance my love of history and the period (I started with a bit of a mountain man/cowboy phase and moved to 1840-65). I can't handle Grizzly Adams or Daniel Boone (Parker) any more. I appreciate what they did for the hobby- made it really, but the complete lack of even trying to do it right is tough. HOWEVER! We watch Daniel Boone with my children because the values and morals were great. I explain, 'no, he didn't wear mocassins like that' but I also tell them, 'see, great moral, he kept his word.'

Just my opinion,
David

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The true genius behind the resurgence of muzzle loading was Walt Disney. He brought Davy Crockett, Swamp Fox, Zorro, Johnny Tremaine, Swiss Family Robinson, Kidnapped and others to the big and little screens.
If you want a best actor for a most believable portrayal, I would say robert newton as long John silver.

 

[George]

That idea is confusing, since the NMLRA was founded in 1933. Don't recall Walt having anything to do with that.

Not everything in the world started with a TV show. :haha:

Spence

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The NMLRA begun as a group of old timers keeping their archane hobby alive. The sudden sky rocketing of interest in muzzle loaders in the 1960's and 1970;s was not brought about by the NMLRA by any stretch of even a deluded prozac-ed imagination. My great uncle hunted into the 1960's with his older brother's Pottsdam Musket brought home from the 1860's disagreement with the Confederacy. That doesn't mean he started the resurgence in the 1960;s either.

 

[smoothshooter]

I totally agree that Walt Disney, through the series characters of Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, etc., is the true father of the resurgent interest in muzzleloading that we have enjoyed for the last 40 years or so, along with some help from whoever wrote and produced the mountain man movies already mentioned. Yes, there was the NMLRA, of which I am a member, but the membership was small, and would have probably have stayed that way or died out altogether by now if not for the exposure to the old guns and stories that millions of children such as myself and adults began to see on TV in the sixties, causing interest in such things to skyrocket. Never underestimate the influence, good or bad, of television and movies on society.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Best: Russell Crowe in Master and Commander.

Worst: Entire Cast of The Bastard mini-series. :barf: :barf:

LD

 

[Artificer]

Gentlemen,
Yes, it all comes down to opinion, but that's the fun of it on a question like this.

Could not agree more. Different folks are bound to have different opinions and that's part of the fun.

For me-
Robert Duvall IS the best Gen. Robert E. Lee in Gds and Generals.

For me-
Robert Duvall (though he didn't speak with a Virginia Gentleman Southron accent of the period) was light years ahead of Martin Sheen in Gettysburg. Of course I almost puked when I saw Sheen in that role in Gettysburg.

To my mind, Sam Elliot was not "mumbling" when he portrayed Colonel Buford, but rather growling and spoke in a manner of a man who had fought battles before and knew the importance of holding that position to the Army and to the Union. Thus he was extremely believable.

The movie Gettysburg was chock full of the most believable portrayals of Union and Confederate Officers I have ever seen. Now I like Tom Berenger from his other works and though he also did not do a proper Southron Accent, he made a very believable Longstreet. But if there was one character in Gettysburg that I felt was almost eerily accurate was Stephen Lang portraying George Pickett.

When I saw Stephen Lang was going to do General Thomas Jonathan Jackson in the following movie Gods and Generals, I did not think he was going to be believable. However, I was truly impressed he portrayed Stonewall so well.

Actually, I was ready not to be impressed by Gettysburg or Gods and Generals when those movies came out.

As a member of the Reenactment Unit "Archer's Brigade," we got to reenact Pickett's Charge on the original site at Gettysburg in I think it was 1982? KanawhaRanger might remember better than I. It was the first time Reenactors had been allowed to do it on National Park Property in decades.

By 1987, I had risen to the Brevet Rank of Lt. Colonel when I commanded the Second of the Two Grand Confederate Divisions at the 125th year reenactment of Cedar Mountain. My permanent rank was Captain commanding a VA INF Company and X.O. in "Longstreet's Corps." I was offered Command of a Confederate Regiment in "Gettysburg," though I could not take it as I was then stationed in California and could not take the 45 days off to do it. I was unbelievably disappointed when I later found out they only took about 10 to 12 days to film it and I WOULD have returned for that.

I lived in Fredericksburg, VA in the 70's and 80's, so I knew the ground of the Battle of Fredericksburg like my own hand. Though I fully understand his faults as well as his good points, General Jackson became even more of a Hero to me the more I learned about him.

So with all that I was expecting both movies to fall quite short of my hopes, but instead was genuinely surprised how well they did in both movies.

Gus

 

[David Snellen]

Gentlemen,
I loved Gods and Generals, but did not like Gettysburg. Sheen as Lee?!?! Plus, I got sick of Chamberlains lectures and the only Confederate point was "we're fightin' for our rats".
But in re accents- listen to these actual Va veterans and the ACTUAL Rebel yell. This is great! They do not sound like today's Southern accent at all. But the yell is amazing. Certainly not "Yee Haw" as folks often think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6jSqt39vFM

I think Wes Studi ((LOTM) and Grahm Green (Dances with Wolves) did outstanding performances.
Respectfully,
David

 

[Artificer]

Thank you for that link !!!

In 1983 a collector brought a studio tape quality copy of an original Edison Cylinder Phonograph recording to a Civil War Round Table event I attended. I think the recording was dated 1908.

On that one, Confederate Veterans explained that each State of the Confederacy had a slightly different "Rebel Yell" to show pride in their state. We were VERY surprised that the Virginia Rebel Yell often included a "Yip, Yip, Yip" at the end. There were definite slight differences for other states, though I don't remember them exactly, unfortunately.

Gus

 

[David Snellen]

Very interesting. Finding things like this, or learning the information you passed on make this much more fun.
I wish there was more we could hear. A friend of mine recently came across an old reel to reel of some of the old folks in his family at a supper in Moniteau County Missouri. He said that it sounded like Mississippi today (this was a 40-50 year old reel to reel). Sadly so much has been lost....
David

 

[Artificer]

Plus, I got sick of Chamberlains lectures and the only Confederate point was "we're fightin' for our rats".

Respectfully,
David

Though "we're fightin" for our rats" was a very common reply on why Confederate Enlisted Soldiers fought, the most common answer from period accounts seems to have been "B/cause You All (or Yall) are down Hyar."

I think they emphasized the "fightin' for our rats" because someone like Chamberlain's Kid Brother with a good Maine education, would not have understood what they meant and that made it a little more accurate for the period.

Gus

 

[David Snellen]

I agree that most Southerners were fighting for States Rights, and had every right to do so, my complaint was I felt the line was intended to make Southerners look stupid based off of the strong "rats" word. The media has a tendency to do so, or make the villain have a Southern accent etc.
I think Gettysburg was very yank sided and Gods and Generals was more for my persuasion.
I think Stephen Lang did a great job as Gen. Jackson. Overall, I think the acting and the beards were much better than Gettysburg.
If you haven't seen RIDE WITH THE DEVIL, I highly recommend it.
I just thought about the WORST I have seen recently (last decade or so)-
Cold Mountain. Everyone in my family walked out of the theatre mad and depressed. Yes, I get the Odyssey concept, but I HATED the movie and the acting!
Respectfully,
David