Bess compared with Bess

[pargent]

Those are called Pattern 1809 ( Indian Type 2) there were a very large number of these made , then the precusion jobbies gets very hairy trying to ID real guns from modified surplus by other nations .There are other Ordnance flintlock muskets that come after the Type2 and these were on issue up to and including the Afghan war .It has come to light recently that large numbers of surplus India patterns were purchased by other Nations and converted to percusion and modified in other ways to meet their needs .

 

[Ike Godsey]

i found those pics on the net by a search for a 1742 LLP. i thought i share them with you:

ike

 

[Wes/Tex]

Very interesting LLP musket with most of the parts still there. Missing the sling swivels and top piece and screw off the hammer or cock but still appears together. Interesting markings for the 2nd battalion or 2nd company of the 24th Regiment of Foot, later the South Wales Borderers. Excellent find that doesn't appear to have had the brass nose piece yet added. Cool example.

 

[Ike Godsey]

and this is also VERY interesting!
http://www.tortugatrading.com/engine/inspect.asp?Item=573&Filter=Arms,+Armour

ike

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That's a very odd musket. Not only does the flat side plate indicate make sometime from 1769 onward, but the stock is more like a SLP Bess, especially around the lock mortise. The barrel length is odd too...not 42 nor 38, but 40, yet no nose cap. I would've said it was possibly a Committee of Safety musket, except for the re-proofing marks from Birmingham..., post 1800. You can tell the stock was redone, just by looking at the stamps on the right side of the butt, so some value has been finished off the musket in the 20th, perhaps 21st century. Probably a musket re-built for use by native levies or provincials in India/Nepal/Afghanistan. Note the crack at the rear of the pan.

LD

 

[pargent]

Those are US fraction marks not English.

 

[pargent]

Also comes with a free bag of carrots.

 

[pargent]

Should explain that is an exceptional FAKE well thought out story for every thing on the gun but it in whole did not come from England in the 1700S but rather it originated from Italy in the 1980s . :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

You're right...that's the formula for determining the cube root of thirteen leap year tangents! :hmm:

 

[pargent]

What I was inferring is that the unit numbers were installed by a US unit after the musket was obtained from it's original owners ,the makeup is not correct for British units ,it was sop for capture muskets to have their unit marks removed and a new one engraved by it's new owners .This also happened when muskets were handed down in the British system .

 

[Ike Godsey]

Should explain that is an exceptional FAKE well thought out story for every thing on the gun but it in whole did not come from England in the 1700S but rather it originated from Italy in the 1980s . :thumbsup:

ok, but what about the lock?

is banana shaped - i think the hammer is a replacement but the lock itself seems rather old...

also if you try to put in a lock like this in an italian stock, that would not work.

on the other hand, if you look at the triggerguad...

ike

 

[Ike Godsey]

i thought this might be of interest.

:hatsoff:

ike

 

[SLewis]

From my rather limited experience, I think that the Pedersoli Besses look more like what they are trying to replicate than the Indian made guns look like what they are trying to replicate.

I wouldn't mind owning an Indian made gun, but if I had a choice I'd rather own the Pedersoli.

 

[Ike Godsey]

From my rather limited experience, I think that the Pedersoli Besses look more like what they are trying to replicate than the Indian made guns look like what they are trying to replicate.

I wouldn't mind owning an Indian made gun, but if I had a choice I'd rather own the Pedersoli.

i got both... :wink:

 

[Wes/Tex]

You're right, I was having some fun. Have seen a couple through the years that were strictly British origin with similar markings though. Appears to have been a couple variations of battalion or company markings, particularly on earlier models when the "colonel commanding" had much more say and influence over the regiment and it's activities.

 

[pargent]

:wink:

 

[pargent]

It's a ground up fake built with some original parts for the sole purpose of relieving fools from their money .These things always seem to end up on the US market ,where there are more cashed up buyers .

 

[Ike Godsey]

OK, i see.

thank you for the information.