Austin & Halleck

[Delgue71]

Have an A&H mountain rifle that won’t stay cocked. Yes it’s an Utah gun and yes I know how bad the Utah guns are supposed to be. Took to local repair man..he said it is a bad fly…couldn’t find any A&H parts for it so he used one he thought would work. No. Anybody know of a smith who can repair an A&H lock?

 

[deerstalkert]

does the lock work out of the stock?
if so shim your trigger group out a little first and see if it helps.
sometimes just loosening the tang screw helps. can't remember if the H&A has he front tang screw through to the trigger plate or not.
Brad Emig is well spoken of here. Cabin creek muzzleloaders or some such.

 

[Delgue71]

does the lock work out of the stock?
if so shim your trigger group out a little first and see if it helps.
sometimes just loosening the tang screw helps. can't remember if the H&A has he front tang screw through to the trigger plate or not.
Brad Emig is well spoken of here. Cabin creek muzzleloaders or some such.

It will stay cocked if the screws are loose enough to fall out. I don’t know much about lock repair, had a good muzzleloader gunsmith at one time so I didn’t have to learn….but not anymore.

 

[deerstalkert]

i would guess that the trigger group has compressed the wood over time and the sear arm is riding on the trigger blades. easiest to try is slip a sliver of wood front and back of the trigger plate. people tend to farmer torque lock screws on muzzle loaders causing all kinds of problems.
many TC Hawken stocks have a crack running through the rear lock screw from just that.
we here are a bunch of visualists, if you can ake pictures and post them it helps in all of the guessing we do!

 

[Notchy Bob]

It doesn't necessarily sound like a problem with the fly to me. Check the screws, as described above. It would be a good idea to take the lock out of the stock and examine it. if the lock works out of the stock, it may be a stock problem. If you can isolate the problem to the lock, the problem could be a weak or broken sear spring that won't push the sear nose into position, or maybe the full-cock notch in the tumbler is worn, or the sear nose is worn. If it is a problem with sear/tumbler engagement, the sear nose and full cock notch may need stoning to improve their fit.

If the fly is missing and the rifle has been used repeatedly with set triggers anyway, the sear nose may have been damaged by hitting the half-cock notch in the tumbler as the hammer falls. If that is the case, you would need a new fly, but you would still need to fix the sear and likely the tumbler notches, anyway.

Brad or Shane Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading could probably fix it. I have heard that Lee Shaver works on locks, and I have also heard that there is a gunsmith at the Log Cabin Shop in Ohio who can fix locks.

Good luck with it!

Notchy Bob

 

[Delgue71]

It doesn't necessarily sound like a problem with the fly to me. Check the screws, as described above. It would be a good idea to take the lock out of the stock and examine it. if the lock works out of the stock, it may be a stock problem. If you can isolate the problem to the lock, the problem could be a weak or broken sear spring that won't push the sear nose into position, or maybe the full-cock notch in the tumbler is worn, or the sear nose is worn. If it is a problem with sear/tumbler engagement, the sear nose and full cock notch may need stoning to improve their fit.

If the fly is missing and the rifle has been used repeatedly with set triggers anyway, the sear nose may have been damaged by hitting the half-cock notch in the tumbler as the hammer falls. If that is the case, you would need a new fly, but you would still need to fix the sear and likely the tumbler notches, anyway.

Brad or Shane Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading could probably fix it. I have heard that Lee Shaver works on locks, and I have also heard that there is a gunsmith at the Log Cabin Shop in Ohio who can fix locks.

Good luck with it!

Notchy Bob

Thanks. As near as I can tell the gun has never been fired. Doesn’t look to have been dry fired much. I bought it thinking I could get it fixed…Unfortunately, the “smith” I took it to did more harm than good. Now it’s all messed up and scratched up. I just need to get it to somebody to work on it and get it right. In the shape it’s in now it’s a wall hanger.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Delgue71, as @Notchy Bob suggests, there are probably some issues with the screws and the fly has nothing to do with any of it. The fly can only cover the half cock notch. Possibly the set trigger screws are adjusted so the trigger lever is raised against the sear lever keeping it from holding at full cock. I certainly wouldn't recommend that "gunsmith" to anyone. I hope he returned the original fly.

 

[Delgue71]

@Delgue71, as @Notchy Bob suggests, there are probably some issues with the screws and the fly has nothing to do with any of it. The fly can only cover the half cock notch. Possibly the set trigger screws are adjusted so the trigger lever is raised against the sear lever keeping it from holding at full cock. I certainly wouldn't recommend that "gunsmith" to anyone. I hope he returned the original fly.

The old shop owner was a genius who could fix anything so I got spoiled. New owner is not. I do not reccomend him for anything other than buying supplies. And yes, he returned the original fly.

 

[Delgue71]

i would guess that the trigger group has compressed the wood over time and the sear arm is riding on the trigger blades. easiest to try is slip a sliver of wood front and back of the trigger plate. people tend to farmer torque lock screws on muzzle loaders causing all kinds of problems.
many TC Hawken stocks have a crack running through the rear lock screw from just that.
we here are a bunch of visualists, if you can ake pictures and post them it helps in all of the guessing we do!

I also am a visual learner. Can’t see what’s going on inside with the gun assembled and don’t know what I’m looking for with it apart…. my old muzzleloader smith moved 2-1/2 hours north and opened another shop in Berryville. I might have to make the drive when I get time.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Have an A&H mountain rifle that won’t stay cocked. Yes it’s an Utah gun and yes I know how bad the Utah guns are supposed to be. Took to local repair man..he said it is a bad fly…couldn’t find any A&H parts for it so he used one he thought would work. No. Anybody know of a smith who can repair an A&H lock?

It will stay cocked if the screws are loose enough to fall out. I don’t know much about lock repair, had a good muzzleloader gunsmith at one time so I didn’t have to learn….but not anymore.

From the first quote it would appear that the lock never did engage the full cock notch. In the second quote the lock will remain cocked if the bolts are very loose. Which bolts? Are these the bolts from the side plate into the lock plate or the tang bolt from the tang into the trigger plate?

Step1. With the triggers unset, can the lock hold at half cock and full cock? If not, then set the triggers. Can the lock hold half cock and full cock? If the lock can't be placed in half or full cock in either case, then proceed to step 2.

Step 2. Remove the lock. Does the lock hold at full cock and half cock when removed? If yes, then look into the lock mortise and see if there are signs of rubbing anywhere. The sear arm (or tumbler not too likely) may be rubbing the wood as the lock is being pulled in by the side bolts. This can be solved by removing a little bit of wood from where the sear or tumbler are rubbing.
If the lock does not hold, look at the engagement of the sear nose into the tumbler. It should fully engage the notches. There may be an adjustment of the sear spring or sear engagement that can be adjusted for full sear engagement.
If the lock still does not hold, then its time to send the lock off for evaluation by someone such as Brad Emig.

Step 3. Look into the lock mortise and at the hole where the sear arm goes into the stock. With the triggers unset, do you see the lever arms of the trigger? If the trigger levers are too high when unset, a shim may be needed between the trigger plate and the stock to lower the trigger levers. Setting the triggers will lower the levers.
The set trigger adjustment which adjusts the engagement of the trigger levers and the height of the rear trigger lever may need to be adjusted to lower the engagement of the trigger levers. The screw in the trigger guard between the triggers can be backed out. The Rear screw will probably adjustt the height of the rear trigger lever and the tension of the spring on the trigger lever.

 

[springfield art]

Have an A&H mountain rifle that won’t stay cocked. Yes it’s an Utah gun and yes I know how bad the Utah guns are supposed to be. Took to local repair man..he said it is a bad fly…couldn’t find any A&H parts for it so he used one he thought would work. No. Anybody know of a smith who can repair an A&H lock?

Cabin Creek, Hallam, Pa. For one. I'm sure any number of fine 'smiths could make the part. Good luck!