Any Harm in Refinishing a Contemporary Build?

[JonnyReb3]

Case in point, i bought an online rifle that had a W.M Large barrel, was done in the 60's or 70's i'd say. Got it out of the box and found it to be an odd mix of features and components. Did have the W.M. Large barrel, in .54 stead of the .58 for which it was advertised. Also has a Bob Roller percussion lock, not dated but is signed. Stock and the custom build wern't signed, no idea who did it...is a gorgeous piece of heavily striped maple but the rifle is slightly rough, metal finish is half patina and half brown, stock is slightly under inletted and the sights are Lyman 57's..peep and front target...blued at that. The rifle is giagantic, big stock and big metal, right at 13lbs. All appears to be original to the build 40 years ago +\-. Hawken style cept for the sights.

Is this a rifle best to be let alone for collector value or is there any harm in fixing it up..browning the metal to perfection and refinishing the stock to its potential? I know rifles just 50+ years older would be treasured for their originality but how about one built in the 60-70's? For the sake of future collectors value is it best to leave them alone or ok to make them better in your opinion? Same question for the old production guns like the 70's T\C's, CVA's, H&R's, H&A's etc...Thanks for your thoughts on this, J.

 

[Zonie]

There are folks who collect old sewing straight pins, bobby pins and old cigarette packages. I wouldn't be surprised if someone collects old Mogen David and Gallo Thunderbird wine bottles too.

I suppose there's someone, someplace that collects modern made muzzleloaders for their collector value but I don't know any of them.

All the folks I know who would be interested in your gun would want it for its W.M. Large barrel and possibly the Bob Roller lock and they would be interested in shooting it. Not storing it for its collecting value.

I could change my mind if I knew who the builder was.

Hawken and other plains rifles were big and heavy.

I think posting a few pictures of your rifle would give us a better idea of whether the stock should be changed or not. It might be perfect as it is and modifying it could reduce the guns value.

 

[JonnyReb3]

You went both ways on that one :wink:

 

[gunmaker43]

Without pictures hard to say what it is, but your description leads me to think a "Chunk Gun: 13 lb. target sites, lots a wood..could be. Bob Roller quit stamping year on his locks in 1989. Do what you want, and then just shoot it. some pics would help. Mr. Roller is a member over on ALR site, he may know who put it together....Tom

 

[bubba.50]

I have seen the pictures of this gun on graybeard's. it looks like a heavy-built Great Plains Rifle. in the opinion of one old hillbilly, if ya sanded off about a pound of finish then rasped off about three pounds of wood & refinished the whole thing it would be an awesome gun. then all it would need is a more appropriate set of sights.

like I said, my opinion & yer welcome to it :hatsoff: .

 

[don hepler]

Looks like you're sitting on a prime candidate, for a redo. W.M. Large barrel and Roller Lock, with a nice piece of wood. I'd be all over that thing, and turn it into the rifle that it deserves to be. Big ole Hawken, will be around 12 lbs. 54 or 58 cal. I'd be happen, with either one. I'd like to see a picture of that puppy.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Thanks guys for your thoughts on this, glad to hear theres no harm in refinishing the rifle. As Bubba .50 says it could be a much more attractive rifle with a pound or two of wood sanded off and the metal finishing appears weak at best.

I looked up "chunk" gun Tom and you may be correct, looks about right and fits the description.

I'll see if i can get a few pictures of it this evening to post, again i appreciate all of your replies. J.

 

[Vaino]

Go for it after considering the following remarks. If it's a "Hawken" or plains style, it's a little heavy for the average person and any weight reduction would be welcome. You didn't mention the bbl length and any reduction in length would surely help in reducing the weight.

As was said....a photo would engender more advice as to what you should do, or.... not do anything.

Also...what is your intention? Retaining it or selling?

Judging from the sights, this rifle was meant for target shooting or competition...perhaps you could use it for such?

A lot of questions that need answering from you in addition to a photo.....Fred

 

[JonnyReb3]

Ok, heres some links to a couple pics, sorry i can never get them to show up as pics, have tried every bit of advice given on this site but i can never get pics to work.

Probably some more pics should be taken but this will hopefully give a general idea. Also, here are some dimensions.
Oal 54", barrel is a tapered 36" long with 1" wide at the muzzle, apprx 1-1\4" at breech. Rifling appears to be a bit odd with very wide grooves and narrow land.

Fred i will eventually sell this rifle as its not one i'll probably use in the field ever and i don't shoot competition. Honestly i had no idea the rifle was so big when i made an offer for it, didn't know much about it and neither did the previous owner who had it a long time but was a 2nd owner. Bought it just based on some pics and when i pulled it out of the box was like "woah...what a monster".

I do like my guns to look nice though and if there is no harm in refinishing from a desirability standpoint i think thats just what i'll do. At some point though...probably after we're all dead.. collectors will undoubtably place more value on "original" guns of the 20th century.., rather than those redone. Don't you think?
My original question was just wondering if those times were already here, but judging by everyones post i guess not. I appreciate all the replies. J.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/x...e Uploads/20150223_162031.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s195.photobucket.com/user/x...e Uploads/20150223_161947.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s195.photobucket.com/user/x...e Uploads/20150223_161934.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
http://s195.photobucket.com/user/x...e Uploads/20150223_161842.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3
http://s195.photobucket.com/user/x...e Uploads/20150223_161415.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

 

[bpd303]

Pretty good looking rifle. I would list it here just as it is. Bet it would sell quick.

 

[Claycow]

Whats that thing at the end of it? As in the thing that looks like it doesn't belong?

 

[JonnyReb3]

Lol :applause:

Thank you BPD very much for fixing that.. :thumbsup:
Is a little rougher than the pics show, the flash, poor quality pic and lack of closeups are being kind to the appearence. With some thought though, i see that theres not much wood can really be removed if its lines are too be kept. Also i guess a bigger heavy barrelled action would look and feel funny in a wispy stock. Could see refinishing the stock however..and if the sights were to be kept then a blue\black finish would allow them to at least match. J.

 

[galamb]

Our numbers are getting smaller and smaller.

The secondary market for anything BP is shrinking.

If you want to make the rifle look "pretty" I say go for it.

If originals that were converted to cap can be reconverted to flint without many yelling "hearsay" what harm can you possibly do to a contemporary piece?

 

[JonnyReb3]

Good points, each and every one. Thanks. J.

 

[Vaino]

I'd sell it as is. Removing even a whole lot of wood isn't going to lighten the rifle much. That 1-1/4" breech is where the weight is, but a few inches of bbl could be sawed off. But why bother if you plan on selling it...who knows, somebody might be looking for such a "Hawken" rifle.....Fred

 

[54ball]

That's a purpose built target rifle, designed to be heavy. It has some architectural flaws, that honestly may do more harm than good trying to "correct". Those flaws are cosmetic and and detract nothing from it's intended purpose as a target rifle. If anything they may help although slightly.

If the finish is indeed poor, I might consider a simple refinish to clean it up some, but for a reshape.....No Way, it what it is. :hatsoff:

 

[Birddog6]

It is a Heavy Barreled rifle & designed as such. Trimming wood is not going to lighten it hardly any at all, as there is not much to come off. Now some will say make the cheek smaller & round the forestock more & etc., we are talking about ? maybe a couple ounces of weight & you may end up sacrificing the looks & integrity of the rifle... Accept that it is what it is....

I had a friend that was going to lighten... a Lyman GPR for his kid to shoot. I tried to tell him, Forget It, as most of the time, removing wood will not lighten the weight to much dif, as the Barrel & the balance determines whether a person can shoulder & shoot the rifle well. Well he wouldn't listen, after all, he has 3 rifles.... :idunno:
Anyway he cuts half the cheek off & take all the belly out of the bottom & sands the bejesus out of this stock. To prove me wrong, he weighed the rifle Before & After the Escavation, I will call it. Made exactly 2.3 oz dif.
Afterwards, you could pick up either rifle he had (both .50 GPR's) and with your eyes closed, you could not tell which one was lightest. If fact, I had him guess & he guess wrong on the lightest. :idunno:

Now as for wood finish, that is an easy fix by striping it & refinishing.

Obviously someone was shooting it for target, so you must decide on keeping sights as is or replacing. IMHO the sights do "take away" from the looks of the rifle, however, if I were shooting it Target & it performed as I wished, I would leave them on it. (I would probably age the sights to match the barrel age)

Keith Lisle

 

[JonnyReb3]

I appreciate you fellas helping me to solidify what the rifle is and was meant for. Honestly, even though i've shot and owned various muzzleloaders for 30 years i don't really know that much...this site has proved that to me. So i appreciate the advice and will take it to heart.

I can see a simple refinish as mentioned..still can see rebrowning (or blueing) the metal. I think the sights are gonna remain though and a "target rifle" is what its probably gonna stay. I've found multiple similar rifles online with the Bill Large barrels and the same sights so it won't be the only one out there.

So far as removing wood, i agree...no sense in it. Not a chance of the barrel getting chopped either.

Thanks again to all who posted. You guys as always, have helped me out a lot. :hatsoff:

 

[necchi]

You've come far Grasshopper, :bow:

 

[Col. Batguano]

Steel and brass weigh about 15x more than an equal volume of wood. I too like a light rifle, and look to take off wood where I can, but I really look to take steel off more. there are lots of places where it isn't needed; thickness of the tang, barrel plug tail, shorter screws. You get the idea.