another wheellie!

[Leonredbeard]

TN,
I am practically a babe in the woods when it comes to metalurgy. I just asked the machinist to use 4140. Then I heated it to yellow and dunked it in warm water. That seemed to work.
Now Bookie reported to us that he did not harden his wheel at all and get really good sparks. Hhmmmnnnn.
volatpluvia

 

[TNHillbilly]

I had sent him an email, asking for some advice. He advised on shaping the pyrite-and mentioned his wheel was not hardened. I'm thinking, at this point, there are three factors affecting how well a lock will work: hardness of the wheel, shape of the pyrite, and wheel speed. The physics of the wheel speed equating to striking steel with flint. Each of us will probably have considerable difference in wheel hardness based on steel used and technique for hardening. Shape of the pyrite, sharp, blunt, etc. may then depend on the other two. In using flint/steel, speed apparently creates better sparking than does mere force. Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

 

[TNHillbilly]

BTW, I sliced off a piece of a lawn mower blade shaft to make my wheel.

 

[ChrisPer]

Thats helpful, but Moh's scale is very subjective and not linear at all. Its good to know though, that the pyrite is likely harder than the steel by a very small margin.

 

[TNHillbilly]

That was the best comparison I could find. I guess the point is only that if 3 guys build a wheel, the relative hardness of each can be signifigantly different, and, thus, the results. I'm still not sure I understand exactly how pyrites produce sparks! There are photos that show how minute 'ball's of steel are thrown off the flint/steel method-but I'm guessing it's the iron in the pyrite that's being thrown off. :hmm:

 

[Leonredbeard]

TN Hills Guy,
Pyrite is iron and sulfer. I suspect the more iron the harder. I could be wrong! However, both iron and sulfer will burn if heated hot enough, thus the sparks.

Another idea I had was to have a smooth, flat edged wheel made with Diamond slurry on the rim. Then use a medium hard piece of steel in the jaws of the dog. That should make sparks every time!

volatpluvia

 

[wulf]

Sorry but I don't understand why wheel lock guns
have been in use for about 100 years..Did they
have the problems mentioned?? Like only a few
shots from the pyrate and stop the fight to do a
change...Something is missing..If everything
that is being done doesn't work,,,then?????
Time to re-think the problem....I would guess.
But,,the chase is worth the effort..Trying to
solve the mystery is the fun of this hobby..

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: Frankly why try to make the wheelock what it never was and should never be. How about an electronic trigger like my Morini Air Pistol or my Morini Free Pistol. Both have electronic triggers with trigger pulls that measure to a high of 500 grams (1/2 lb) for the AP and the Free pistol which has a trigger pull of 15 grams (yes I said grams). I know we are joshing around but I have seen a few Matchlocks that don't look like Matchlocks looked back when!!! The big problem with the wheelocks is the lack of decent pyrites, I have heard Teleoceras complain for years about being unable to find a decent source for years as well. I think those of you who have made your own have skills beyond which I am capable, so I may never own a wheelock, but I gain from watching and enjoying through the secondary experiences provided on this forum. Thanks--- :v

 

[TNHillbilly]

I'm glad we masochists are providing entertainment for, I hope, many! I think the enjoyment is recapturing something from long ago-re-inventing the wheel,(pun intended) so to speak. I became fascinated with the wheellock looking at photos and in awe of the craftsmanship they employed 500 years ago! My guess, too, would be the construction of a 'gonne' was the product of many hands. The wheelies were referred to as 'clockmaker's toys'-or so I've read. If you think about it, a clockmaker would had to have an extraordinary practical knowledge of mathematics. I wouldn't even know were to begin setting about designing, or building, a timepiece. I would guess, too, using sparks to start a fire was pretty old-actually ancient- technology by 1500. Most probably there were guys who by then went around selling flints, pyrites, etc. and knew where the best came from. What are there here, a handful of guys messing with this old stuff? Like I told my buddy when he sort of looked at what I was doing and sort of said 'why', it only has to fire once for me to be happy!

 

[TNHillbilly]

BTW, guys, got my brass barrel material, shown with the model of where I'm trying to go. I'll take this to the machine shop and have it bored straight through-hoping for about a .36 cal, and turned down roughly to the finished shape. Also, two designs from a book I just got from Track of the Wolf-2 quite different designs of the mechanism(byPryor Mt.Bill Newton, $10 shipped)

 

[TNHillbilly]

In response to some of the above comments, I think,too, one has to look at the historical context in which the wheellock was used. The tactics employed involved large numbers of 'Reiters'-cavalry- riding in rows abreast firing, wheeling left or right-probably left, and going to the rear to reload. It is written, too, they each carried as many as 5,or 6, guns. Imagine carrying 5 matchlocks with smouldering wicks! The wheellock could also be concealed-perfect for assassins-who it appears also carried a dagger, should their pyrite fail! Again, imagine the comment 'Why is your pocket smoking?"

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

With all it's problems the Wheellock was an Assult
Rifle compared to the Matchlock. It looks like it did not survive lone in the Military form, but it was used for hunting until the cartridge years.
This out dates the Flintlock!!

 

[Leonredbeard]

After long hyatis, I did about four hours on the lock earlie today. The first pic shows the dog with its freshly made bottom jaw and freshly made fancy dog bolt. I clamped a pyrite in it for effect.

Here are the pieces. The junk piece on the right is my first attempt this morning on a bottom jaw. I made the mistake of cutting it in a wedge. So when I clamped it together with the dog to drill the hole straight thru and have everything line up nice the jaw moved and the drill bit went into the notch. So I started over and cut a parallel piece. Then I was able to get the hole drilled perfectly straight with the one in the dog.

Making that bolt from three eighths rod stock is time consuming! Whew! That is why I say I will not build another lock unless I get some power machines.
volatpluvia

 

[ChrisPer]

Nice work Volatpluvia!

I confess that drillholes wantering into slots is the sort of thing I do nine times out of ten! :shake:

 

[Leonredbeard]

ChrisPer,
The 'neck' of the dog there where the slot of the lower jaw rides was wider and closer to the hole in the top jaw. before I attempted to slot the lower jaw stock I filed that neck thinner to get my slot away from the hole. That helped the second attempt at drilling go straight thru. :grin:

 

[Leonredbeard]

This pic is self explanetary. I am not using a bridle for the dog and spring. I need to put the bolt that holds the spring in place too far in.

volatpluvia

 

[TNHillbilly]

Can you give us a 'top down' view for perspective? Looking good....!

 

[Leonredbeard]

I'm not sure if this is what you want, but here you go.

volatpluvia

 

[TNHillbilly]

I was trying, among other things, to get an idea of the size of the opening of the pan, the relative mass of the wheel. The sear raises another question. Does the release of the secondary, or small, sear merely release tension on the main sear, or does it provide mechanical movement away from the wheel? Mine, for example, does not release easily-I have to physically push the main sear.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Your sear spring is too heavy, or your hole is too deep in your wheel. All the trigger sear is designed to do is hold the mainsear from being kicked out of the dimple in the wheel from mainspring pressure until you pull the trigger.

I was wondering, since you made the new wheel, did you try to ignite some 4fg? You have only tiny sparks. This is often normal. It doesn't take much spark if it is being made right in the pile of prime.
volatpluvia