Another newbie question: Smoothebore pistol...?

[cdg]

Hello. This information might not be used immediately, as I am in the process of checking the legality of an 18 year old to own a replica black powder pistol. However, even if it isn't legal yet, I am interested in one point: What actually brought up the question of the legality of this issue was my spotting an interesting replica pistol on the internet. It is a .36 caliber smoothebore precussion cap pistol. So, this brought up more questions about the nature of a smoothebore, and even the nature of a "modern" pistol. So away we go:

1) Smoothebores have become a legend in the world that I live in (that of conventional containted cartrige rifles and handguns), for being inaccurate. Why you may aim north, and the bullet could turn clear around and hit the barn to the south of you!! :grin: OK, so I"m practicing a little on my tall tales, but is this reputation deserved? Are smoothebore pistols fun to shoot, or mostly frustratingly inaccurate? I have extensive handgun experience, and of course, I can make a smothebore BB gun hit its target pretty consistantly at about 20 yards... (cheapo old Crossman pistol that shoots about 200 fps)

2) This is the big one: the use of shot. Can shot be used in smoothebore pistols safetly?

3) If shot can be used, has it actually been used historically? I have heard in the smoothebore rifle world that General Washington encouraged his troops to load a certain mixture of shot (or at least those that carried smoothebore weapons). What of pistols? Is this tactic effective at increasing accuracy while not diminshing the power and effectiveness of the round?

4) Another "if shot can be used", how does one control the spread or pattern of the shot? There are obviously no choke tubes, so I imagine it would depend more on the size of charge, diameter of the individual shot pellets, and the actual design of the given weapon right? Or is it pretty much unpredictable?

Now the 5th question is a little off topic, and not to do much with muzzleloaders. However it is about a kind of historic weapon: the derringer. I have always been curious about the derringers offered in .410 guage. How does shot actually work in these guns? Has it been found to be effective? I imagine given that most modern derringers have rifled barrels that you would want to use lead shot, so as not to damage the rifling... Anyway it is a side topic- hopefully the mods here will let it slide so long as the topic remains primarily focused on muzzleloading. I'm mostly putting it up to get a kind of feel for comparing and contrasting the difference between then and now...

Responses as always are appreciated. I will also post back on the legal issue in the off-topic section of the forum. Thanks! :grin:

 

[Toomuch_36]

I am not an authority by any means, but I will try to give you what I can.

1. A smooth bore is not as accurate as a rifled barrel (for as great a distance) but at up to 25 yd. for a pistol or 60 to 70 yd. for a long gun you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

2. Yes, shot is an option you would have with a smooth bore.

3. There may not be much historical documentation on the use of shot in pistol, but that it was done I have no doubt.

4. In the absence of a choke the only way you would have to regulate the shot pattern would be to adjust the ratio of shot to powder.

5. For the most part reproduction pistols from the major manufactures will reasonably follow the designs of the origional.If the origional were smooth the repro would be smooth, and if the origional were rifled so would the repro. I would not use shot of any kind (soft or hard lead, plated, or steel) in any rifled barrel.

Toomuch
.............
Shoot Flint

 

[TN.Frank]

I got my first pistol('58 Remington Cap n' Ball) while I lived in Phoenix,AZ. so Yes, you can legally own a black powder pistol in AZ.

 

[pondoro]

Adjusting of the pattern in a muzzleloading shotgun can also be accomplished by changing the wad.

410 Buckshot loads contain 3 balls, all in a row, so a rifled barrel should work great with a 410 buckshot load. Probably not the best self defense load in the world but I would not want to get shot with one either.

 

[Flintandsteel]

CDG,
Welcome from Mesa,

First of all, you are dealing with a very gray area. In Arizona, if not accompanied by an adult, an 18 year old CANNOT be in possession of any handgun.
The grayness come in, in that a black powder weapon is not considered a firearm as such. You do not neel a FFL to transfer ownership.
You've been given great advise on accuracy. A smoothbore with a properly patched ball with shoot just as accurately as a rifled gun with in it's limited range.

In a 36 cal, it seems shot would be somewhat of a waste. Maybe a small load for snakes or rats would be ok. But realize it's limitations. 8" barrel will not give much of a pattern beyond about 10ft.
There is even international competition with smoothbore pistols. So they can be made to shoot.

More than anything.... they are just plain fun.


SOOOOOOO, I think the problem would be more one of interpretation. The local authorities probably would be of little help.

 

[cdg]

Well, there are a few fellow Arizona residents among us here I see (or former residents).

My current course of action is to try and find out directly from the Maricopa County Attorney's Office about this issue. If it is in fact legal for me to own a muzzleloading pistol, I plan on requesting a statement to that effect in writing, which I will keep more or less attached to the gun whenever I am in possession of it unattended. That way I cover my butt as much as possible from a legal standpoint.

I appreciate the general responses as well- it's always nice in forums like this to get a level of personal experience out of people. Something that is often not conveyed so much in a book. I would never use a forum, as much as I respect you all for matters of life and death, or matters that could lead to my serving jail time... :grin:

Well we'll have to see. I have definately been meaning to get into muzzleloading, and the possibility of getting a used pistl is tempting. Smoothebore with shot might be interesting to blow the manure out of things for laughs. Never in an unsafe manner, but it is important to have some fun on the range I think... Safety always comew first though, both with myself, and with my friends.

Thanks again for the responses, and of course, if anybody wants to add, you are welcome to do so.