Accuracy issues

[Scotman]

I was sighting in my Traditions 50 cal Hawken today. Accuracy was very disappointing. It'll get the job done in the woods next week but minute of pie plate at 75 yards is not what I was hoping for. The trigger was terrible ”“ very hard to pull. I can't say for certain where the front sight was when it would finally go off, so I'm sure that accounts for part of the problem.

However, when I took the barrel off to clean it I noticed there is a barrel tensioning spring that was not engaged. It's positioned between the breach and the barrel wedge just forward of the lock area. It looks like it's designed to apply upward pressure on the barrel between the breach and the wedge (I hope those are the correct terms). Would not having this spring engaged also contribute to the accuracy problems?

The barrel fits nice and tight with out it but I can't get the wedge in when the spring is engaged. I figured out how to adjust the trigger. It's sweet now. But do I need to use this spring too? I await the wisdom of the elders.

Scott

 

[trent/OH]

My familiarity with this rifle is almost nil, but my first impression is you may be looking at a device to keep tension on the ramrod. It's very annoying for your ramrod to run away from home while you are hunting, so T/C might have put a spring on the rod to hold it in place.

 

[Scotman]

Never mind about that spring. I figured it out. It's not supposed to be flipped up to tension the barrel. It's supposed to be flipped down to tension the ram rod. :shake:

By the way I was shooting a PRB with 70 grains of 3f Goex. It's a 28 inch barrel. I'm going to blame it on the trigger and lack of practice for now.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Zonie]

THOUGHTS ABOUT YOUR HEAVY TRIGGER PULL

The sear screw is the first thing I would check on your lock. It is the screw that passes thru the sear arm on the inside of your lock.

Many times someone will have tightened this screw down so it pinches on the sear arm.
This will REALLY INCREASE the pressure the trigger will need to move it.
If it is tight, loosen it about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn and try the newly adjusted setting by installing the lock and "firing" it with the trigger. Just doing that may fix your problem.

The screw that holds the sear arm should not be tight. It must be "just slightly loose" so that the sear arm (without the sear spring in place)
moves freely with just a light touch of your finger.

Part of your heavy trigger pull may also be due to the strength of the sear spring. These are usually designed to be quite heavy (for legal reasons I suspect). They only need to exert a pressure that will guarantee that the sear will fully engage the tumbler when the gun is set at half cock or at full cock.

If you remove the lock and look at workings that are on the inside you will probably see a U shaped spring at the rear (assuming it is not a coil spring).
This U shaped spring uses a side tab in the lockplate and a screw to hold and position it.
Do not mess with this side tab. It is required for the spring to work.

If you unscrew the screw that holds the spring in place about 3 to 4 turns you can pry the rear of the spring upwards disengaging the side tab. Then remove the screw and spring.

DO NOT TRY TO BEND THE SPRING! IT WILL BREAK IF YOU DO.

Using a grinder or whet-stone you can reduce the width of the lower part of the U that pushes on the sear arm. If you reduce it to about 1/2 of its original width you will have reduced its tension by about 1/2.
This will reduce the amount of pressure you will have to apply to the trigger.
NOTE: DO NOT OVERHEAT THE SPRING WHEN YOU ARE GRINDING ON IT. If it burns your fingers it is getting too hot.

You might also try using a flat file to reduce the springs width. It may or may not cut the material depending on how the spring was tempered.
If you do use a file, file in the direction of the spring leaf. Do not file crossways on it as doing so will leave score marks along the edge and these will eventually cause the spring to break.

I suggest that you do this spring width alteration in stages and reassemble the gun and try it several times before reaching a 1/2 width reduction. Many times it doesn't take that much to make the trigger very usable.

If simply loosening the sear arm screw fixes the heavy trigger problem then forget trying to alter the sear spring.
Altering it should only be done as a last resort.

 

[Trench]

I have the same rifle and I'm glad you figured out the trigger pull. Mine is pretty crisp and light, especially when it's set.

I'm shooting 70gr of 2F (hates 3F) and a .490 ball with a .018 ticking patch and I can get 2 inch groups at 75 yds from a rest. I imagine you can do the same. What patch and ball are you using? Don't be afraid to try 2F some time down the line to see if the rifle likes that better.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

traditions, cva and lyman muzzleloaders, for me have always wanted at least 100 to 110gr ff or 3f goex/pyrodex to be excellent shooters.

Patch is where you are going to get the best accuracy. If its burning up, accuracy isnt going to be there.

 

[mckutzy]

i have one, its an allright gun, imstill working on a load, when i got the rifle i had a trigger problem, like u said it was really hard. i have it adjusted properly now, really crisp. i have had some similar luck with the accuracy, i not too sure what is going on yet but i havent had a good time on the bench to get it done right, the vent blast bothers people who dont shoot flint :shake: oh well..

.490 rb
75gr ffg
.015 ticking patch


oh pardon me, it a flint tho. :redface:

 

[renovato]

It could be as simple as your gun not liking a 70 grain charge. Some guns have strong preferences and going up or down slightly in charge can result in drastic group changes. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. I'd suggest working up a load to find your most accurate charge. You might also want to tinker with patch thickness and type of lube, but play with charge weight first.

 

[Scotman]

Thanks for the advice. Here's what I did to the trigger.

The trigger raises a lever (of sorts) that engages a pin that trips the hammer to fall. I polished the surfaces of the lever and the pin. They were pretty rough but they're nice and smooth now.

Then I adjusted the set screw to lighten the pull. It's now very smooth, light and breaks cleanly. Unfortunately I won't get an opportunity to fire it again before opening morning, this Saturday. Even though the accuracy is the kind of thing that embarrasses an old Marine like me, I'm confident enough in it to hunt 75 yard or less.

I used to shoot 70 grains of Pyrodex and it was a little tighter but if I left the load in it for a day or two it was unreliable. This year I'm switching to real BP (since I finally found someone who sells it locally) and magnum caps. I'm sure I need to experiment with the load, patches and powder (2f versus 3f) but it's been difficult to get any range time lately. I really don't like our only public range and I hate to impose on the one guy I know who let's me come out to his property and shoot. Man, I miss the good ole days when I could take a gun to any number of places and shoot to my hearts content without imposing on anyone or frightening nervous people who hear gunfire in the distance ”“ the concrete just keeps creep'n in.

I didn't even think to check my spent patches. I'm using Ox Yoke brand .015 thickness. They were always fine with the Pyrodex. I'll have to remember that next time I go to shoot it. I'll probably buy some of the .018 Pillow ticking patches I saw in the Possible Shop and try those too.

If there's any experienced shooters in the Winter Haven, FL area that would like to get together and give me a few pointers let me know. We'll send a few down range.

Thanks again,
Scott