A Kerr first model (?) revolver. Is it rare ?

[Viana]

Could i have some help here?
Is this actually a Kerr's patent 'first model' ? I see that it doesn't either have the current device on the left side (barrel axis lock?) nor the lanyard ring. I fail to discern other differences.
It is a .36 caliber, so not part of 'massive' Confederate exports ... according to what i have read, at least.
I have also read that a first lot of 200 units was made, but ignore whether this was the only quantity made in the so said first model.
In any case, this example being # number 198, has a chance to be considered a 'valuable' or even rare piece
Comments would be so much apreciated.
Fernando

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[bingo1952]

According to wikipedia only a few were made in the smaller .36 caliber so you may have a rare bird there. One thing is for sure; you definitely have a low numbered gun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerrs_Patent_Revolver

 

[RickD]

What a nice revolver

 

[Zonie]

The book "Pistols of the World" by Claude Blair, THE VIKING PRESS- NEW YORK, 1968 shows a double action Kerr revolver (ref #648).

The text describing the gun says, among other things:

Kerr's percussion Army revolver, and Model of 1859. Five-shot, double-action, solid frame. Back-action lock with side hammer and sliding safety-catch...London proof marks. Marked; name and address of retailer...LONDON ARMOURY (sic)...KERR'S PATENT 949 (frame)...

This revolver was made by the London Armoury (sic) Company...under British Patents of 17th December, 1858, and 26th January, 1859, granted to its superintendent, James Kerr. The first model, of similar design, was single-action. This pistol must have been made between 1859 and 1866 when the L.A.C. went into liquidation."

Although the pistol in the book is a double action, I thought the other information might be of interest.

 

[torn moc]

Thats a Fine piece ya got there !

 

[JV Puleo]

That is certainly a nice revolver, and probably fairly valuable. It will likely be a good deal more valuable in England than it is here, if only because percussion revolvers are about the only handguns that British citizens are still allowed to own without a license. If you would like you can PM me and I will give you the e-mail of a British friend who is likely to know much more about these and their relative rarity.

Joe Puleo

 

[Viana]

Hi guys,i am awfully sorry for the late reaction :surrender: .
Many thanks for your input.
There isn't much stuff you can find in the web about this gun, specially the first(single)model and its probable 200 units production. It seems as some (most?) of these initial pieces equiped British units like Artillery Volunteers.
... Eventually not the case of my example; it was assured by the collector who sold it to me, that it belonged to a Portuguese honourable house.
Fernando

 

[Viana]

Hi Joe,
Just sent you a PM ... or i think i did ... providing PM's in this Forum are Private Topics
Fernando

 

[Mike Brooks]

Kerr's bring alot of money around here, that one will probably bring a minimum of $1800 to $2500. Condition is very important with these. Yours appears to have browned out, which I don't mind, but serious collectors get all bent out of shape about it. With 80% or better finish it would probably bring $8000 to $10,000. Nifty gun, I have always wanted one!

 

[TFoley]

...LONDON ARMOURY (sic)...KERR'S PATENT 949 (frame)...

This revolver was made by the London Armoury (sic) Company...

Dear Mr Zonie - there is nothing incorrect about the spelling of the word 'Armoury' in this instance that merits your [sic] comment. It is the name of an English company, and whether you care for the spelling or not, that is how WE spell the word 'armoury' here in UK.

You, of course, may spell it any way you care to on an American-made product, as in 'Springfield Armory'.

tac

 

[TFoley]

It will likely be a good deal more valuable in England than it is here, if only because percussion revolvers are about the only handguns that British citizens are still allowed to own without a license.

I regret to inform you, Sir, that you are incorrect.

Here in UK you MAY possess an antique percussion handgun provided that you do not shoot it - doing so is a criminal offence that might land you in extreme hot water, and, of course, get the gun confiscated. The minimum recommended jail time for serious firearms offences, and this would be classed as such here in Broonistan, is five years.

ANY firearm, be it a genuine antique or any modern replica, must be licensed before you may shoot it legally. ALL modern replicas are, in any case, classed exactly the same as if they were a Barratt Light .50cal anti-materiel arm. In other words, the law makes no distinction between a replica of a Springfield and a .338LM sniping rifle or any other modern firearm.

You can possess neither without 'good reason'.

I have only two percussion handguns - a ROA and a low-number Colt Walker second series - both have to be licensed for me to own them, let alone shoot them.

This rare piece posted here, if kept as an antique, would be free of licencing, but if the owner wished to shoot it in a vintage handgun competition, of which the MLAGB has a number, it would need to be correctly licensed. The owner would need to be a member of a gun club in order to obtain a firearms certificate in any event. Several hundred of my posts on this forum deal with licensing of firearms here in the UK.

Cartridge-firing black powder revolvers, for which ammunition is still available, are banned in mainland UK, but not in Northern Ireland or the Channel Islands - citizens of both locations are classed as British, BTW.

As for all things, there are exceptions, but the hoops through which you have to jump in order to shoot such an arm on mainland UK make it hardly worth the trouble.

I hope this clarifies things for you, if only a little.

tac

 

[JV Puleo]

Actually, since I spend a fair amount of time in the UK I am quite aware of all those rules. I purposely didn't say "shoot", I said "own". Precisely as you say, you can buy an original (not a reproduction) muzzle loader off ticket.

 

[Viana]

Kerr's bring alot of money around here, that one will probably bring a minimum of $1800 to $2500. Condition is very important with these. Yours appears to have browned out, which I don't mind, but serious collectors get all bent out of shape about it. With 80% or better finish it would probably bring $8000 to $10,000. Nifty gun, I have always wanted one!

Thank you so much for the rating, Mike.
Although my query was more on the basis of rarity and abstract value, and considering that my collecting preferences go more towards earlier pieces, i will in this case not exclude the possibility to trade this gun; either sell it or swap it for an item more within my tastes.
Fernando

 

[Mike Brooks]

I just rechecked my resources and a Kerr in far less condition than yours sold at auction here last month for $4000. It was pretty rough and non functional.
There was also a Kerr in .450 that had about 60% finish that sold for $8000.

 

[Viana]

I just rechecked my resources and a Kerr in far less condition than yours sold at auction here last month for $4000. It was pretty rough and non functional.
There was also a Kerr in .450 that had about 60% finish that sold for $8000.

Holly cow
What do i have in my hands!
I have sent you a PM.
Fernando