51 Brass Frame

[Chilidog]

Hey Y'all,

I've been presented with 51 Navy in 44 cal. brass frame. Never been fired, bought as a wall hanger.
The barrel and cylinder are finished bright possibly crome? Walnut grips. Nice looking pistol and I can understand why it was purchased.

I understand all the scuttlebutt about the 44 not being proper and the brass frame is not all that strong. But it's been hanging around since the early 90's and I figure it's time to touch her off. I'm thinking 20 grains FFFg. How about it?

 

[sundog]

First make certain it IS a gun and not somthing that looks like a gun but is made of pot metal.
Are there any stampings on it ?
If so what are they ?

 

[Chilidog]

You're right of course, I should have posted more info.

On the barrel - F.LLIPIETTA - MADE IN ITALY
BLACK POWDER ONLY 44 CAL.

PN BA stamped on the frame

I'm not sure if this was made during the time that Pietta was having quality problems or not. But it appears sound.

I was mainly concerned with the strength of the frame. I've heard of the brass ones loosing up after awhile and was wondering if those of you who have used these experienced much of this. What could I expect?

 

[bob308]

20 gr will be fine you will not hurt it at all. just use pure lead balls and crisco over the balls. it makes a mess but it keeps the gun from fouling up and locking up.

 

[R.M.]

Yup, 18 or 20 gr of 3F will work just fine. Don't be surprised if it shoots high. Many of them do.
If you try the grease over the ball, and don't like it, you can use a lubed felt wad between the powder and ball. It'll accomplish the same thing.
Have fun.

 

[mykeal]

PN BA stamped on the frame

PN is the Italian black powder proof house stamp. BA is the date code for 1991 when the gun was made.

I'm not sure if this was made during the time that Pietta was having quality problems or not.

Yes.

As the others said, stick with 20 grains and you'll be ok.

 

[Chilidog]

OK guys, thanks for the replies - 20 grains it is. And I'm assuming you're telling me that as far as safety issues go, I'm okay. But I'm still wondering, with this load will the frame eventually get sloppy or am I good to go?

 

[Zonie]

You talk like someone who knows about these guns but for any newcomer that doesn't, .44 is the caliber marked on the barrel but do not buy .440 diameter balls for it.

All of these revolvers take oversize balls so they will fit tightly in the chambers.

Most likely .451 or .453 diameter balls will be about right for this gun. I would lean towards the .453.

The 20 grain powder load should give you thousands of shots without the brass frame loosening up so have fun with it.

 

[Chilidog]

Thanks Zoni, that's what I wanted to hear. I was hoping that the light charge would not do damage to the frame. And I have some 454's that I'm gonna give a go first chance I get. I was gonna consign that piece to just light duty anyway, but I'm glad to hear that I can use her as much as I like without undo concern.

Thanks again...

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Brass frames stretch from the pounding of the recoiling cylinders in these guns. It take quite a few shots, but with the heavier .44 ball, the recoil( Cylinder set-back) will be stronger. 18-20 grains of FFFg powder with a filler to fill the cylinder up to the base of the RB when seated is a good target load. Some use less powder. After all, all that is expected is for the ball to pierce paper, NO?

Be nice to the gun and it should give you good service. The wear on the frame will appear in the form of a "RING" in the "firewall", behind the cylinder. I was told by someone that he had a steel washer made to fit that ring, and that stopped further stretching of his brass framed revolver, with target loads. My brass framed Navy .36 got to the point where it was firing off two chambers in the cylinder with each hammer fall- one under the hammer, and the other because the corner of the loading gate notch in the right side of the frame was setting off the cap of the chamber in line with it. Double firing is a bit more exciting than I am interested in having, so I sold the gun to a deal who bought it for parts. I shot a couple hundred balls out of mine before this condition arose, so I can't claim I didn't have fun with it until that point.

 

[bingo1952]

I bought a brass framed .36 Navy when I was at Ft. Hood in 1973 and was a rank amateur and loaded 25 grains (as much as I could get behind the ball and still seat it) and shot it loose in about a year. In retospect if I had used around 60% of that 25 grains I would probably still be shooting it today. I sold it to my brother (he knew it was loose) for $5.00 and he shot it for a while until he had all six chambers go off at once and he retired it. He said it kicked like the proverbial "Mule".

 

[Chilidog]

Thanks guys, your experience well noted. :hatsoff:

 

[peterbh]

I never knew someone made a 51 Navy in 44 cal. It was certainly not an original caliber.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Enjoy it--20 grains is the right charge! If you don't have filler, you can use an extra wonder-wad or two under the ball to get it close to the chamber mouths. More uniform s.d.v. yields tighter groups :wink: .

Have fun with that thing :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[dhayre]

I remember when I purchased my first 1851 Navy .44 cal brass frame revolver and loaded with about 5 grains of powder cause I had never fired a ball and cap and had heard alot of bad stories about how cheap they were made. So I fired her at the range and it sounded like a mouse passed gas, so I loaded a little more everytime to build my confidence up until I got to 30 grains and then I found my safe load of 25 grains. Thats what I have been loading for the past couple of years and 200 loads later I have had no problems. I inspect the revolver after every six rounds just playing it safe.

 

[Zonie]

Over the years many Italian companies have made a .44 caliber "1851" Colt gun.
These were (and are) made in both steel or brass frames.

Unlike a real 1851, the cylinder is rebated like an 1860 Colt for the .44 caliber and the frame has a clearance cut made to clear this larger rebated area of the cylinder.

These guns are the pipe dream of the Italians who appearently thought that a .44 would sell better than a .36 as the 1851 should be.

My first C&B pistol back in 1971 was a steel framed 1851 .44 caliber pistol.

Like the original 1851's it had the toggle loading arm and the smaller grips.
It was a total blast to shoot and it did so up until I had a brain fart and sold it because it was not "historically correct".

After selling it and replacing it with a .36 cal 1851 I came to regret my haste.
There is nothing wrong with a .36 caliber but truth be told, the .44 was more fun to shoot.
I also liked the smaller grip on the gun better than the slightly larger 1860 Army grips.

Anyway, yes, it is not historically correct and yes it is great fun to shoot.
The Italians may be on to something here. :hmm::

 

[reloader4410]

I use 2f & grits, shoots fine, with less stress on gun.

 

[htr230]

And I sold it in a yard sale for $5.00 in 1980.