50g FFFg for Whitetail?

[Abel]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I plan to keep my shots within 75 yards. Most shots will be at 50 yards or less.

 

[BrownBear]

That is pretty close to a .45 ACP shooting a 230 grain bullets muzzle energy so I would expect the results to be better than shooting the deer at point blank range with that cartridge gun. (Bigger caliber = more destruction.)

Having shot several deer from 20-50 yards with the 45 ACP and assorted ammo, I think you picked a good comparison. With 230 grain ball ammo, the ACP is a slow killer. But my wife's lead RB spanks em with a 60 grain charge. Dunno why it's so different, but it's there.

 

[Heavy Eagle]

I hunt with mostly with a 54 cal. T/C Renegade Rifle--I call it a plain jane hawkin. I have found with mine is that I have the same accuracy of grouping by using 70 gr 2f with a round ball as I do using 90 gr 2f with a maxi-ball or a power built bullet. The 1 in 48" twist of the barrel allows me to do this trick. I have kick up the charge to 80 gr of 2f using a round ball. I be concern that the 50gr charge may enter the deer and even kill it, but the lack of a exist wound may hinder the tracking of the deer.

 

[TennesseeJed]

If it was me, I'd bump it up to 70 grains. Too often we wind up with less than perfect shots and shooting conditions that I think that light of a load would require.

When I started shooting muzzleloaders all the guys I worked with that hunted said you had to use 90 grains, my .54 Renegade shot all over the place. I dropped it down to 70 and when I do my part it will shoot into one ragged hole at 60 yards.

The other side of the coin are the guys who think they need 150 grains for whitetail because they read it in a magazine or saw it on TV. 70 seems to be a happy medium.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I hunt the south too and know most shots are at short distance. Having said that IMO I would try the 65-70 grn. range.
Personally I shoot closer too 90grns. I do this because I am confident in the group I get and I would rather err on the side of caution for myself.
I know what the load does at 25-100 yds. Overkill, maybe but I want too make sure that if they don't drop on the spot, they ain't going far!

 

[Matt85]

i believe 50 gr to be plenty for a deer as long as you keep it close (just as others have said).

however i say this because of the trajectory of the ball not because i think it wont be moving fast enough. with my 50 cal long rifle a powder load of 70 grains yielded excellent groups at 50 yards. however, this same load at 100 yards hit 12" low. i bumped the charge up to 90 grains and found my groups to still be good at 50 yards and my 100 yard groups where now onley 6" low.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Good morning,

I have a T/C Haken 50cal that shoots very, very well with 50g of Goex FFFg and a Hornady PRB. At 75 yards and under, is this adequate for deer?

Thanks

What are you using for a measure? Have you weighed a charge thrown from this measure?

I ask this because I have seen with my own eyes that a measure marked as being 50 grains or an adjustable measure set at 50 does not mean it is throwing 50 grains, more difference noted with FFFg since most commercial measures are supposed to throw that weight of FFg.

One thing I have read is that you should start at the minimum and work up until the accuracy improves and then falls off, the most accurate load at this end of the scale should be your target or small game load. Then start with the maximum load listed and work down until accuracy imroves and then falls off and this most accurate load should be your "big" game load. You may even want to keep working down because it is possible that your barrel may yield more than those two most accurate loads. Apparently the guys in the know call these accuracy nodes and it has something to do with barrel harmonics (lots of target shooters have adjustable weights that they use on their modern firearms to fine tune the harmomnics for certain commercial ammo, Browning rifles can be purchased with the Boss system already installed).

 

[David W.]

Good morning,

I have a T/C Haken 50cal that shoots very, very well with 50g of Goex FFFg and a Hornady PRB. At 75 yards and under, is this adequate for deer?

Thanks

What are you using for a measure? Have you weighed a charge thrown from this measure?

I ask this because I have seen with my own eyes that a measure marked as being 50 grains or an adjustable measure set at 50 does not mean it is throwing 50 grains, more difference noted with FFFg since most commercial measures are supposed to throw that weight of FFg.

One thing I have read is that you should start at the minimum and work up until the accuracy improves and then falls off, the most accurate load at this end of the scale should be your target or small game load. Then start with the maximum load listed and work down until accuracy imroves and then falls off and this most accurate load should be your "big" game load. You may even want to keep working down because it is possible that your barrel may yield more than those two most accurate loads. Apparently the guys in the know call these accuracy nodes and it has something to do with barrel harmonics (lots of target shooters have adjustable weights that they use on their modern firearms to fine tune the harmomnics for certain commercial ammo, Browning rifles can be purchased with the Boss system already installed).

You don't really have to weigh the charge. With BP, close is good enough. The most important part is finding what charge groups the best. It may be 50, 55, or 60 gr. Your actual charge could be 3 or 4 +/- gr. from what the measure says.

 

[izzyjoe]

i've heard that 5gr. increments is a waste of time, but i wish i had a chrony to know for sure.

 

[Dphar]

i've heard that 5gr. increments is a waste of time, but i wish i had a chrony to know for sure.

It depends on the amount of powder. Heavy loads like 110 in a 50 will shot less gain to 120 than the same rifle will going from 70 to 80.
Where velocity gain per grain of powder will be higher. Here 5 grains may gain 40-50fps.

Dan

 

[S.Kenton]

I have killed MANY deer with the same light load you describe, due to that load being the MOST accurate load for the rifle (A cva hawken)I was using at the time. I have since replaced that rifle with a different 50 cal( T/C Hawken) and have found that it likes 80 grains with a .015 patch..so thats my new hunting load. My 54 likes 70 grains with a .020 patch. As others have stated..shot placement is the key to success. You shoot a White Tail Deer with the lighter load in the "boiler room" and limit your yardage to say under 80 yards..its not going far.
My 2 cents for whats it worth.

 

[Jblk]

I don't know about fifty grains of BP but I do know that sixty has killed numerous white tails for me.Unless you are going to shoot at extreme ranges, I think fifty will work just fine.When you consider that the old 30 30 black powder round has probably accounted for more deer than anything else.The fact of the matter is shot placement, so if that is what makes your rifle shoot best give it a try.My experience has been that the lower velocity rb makes much quicker harvest.

 

[Rat Trapper]

50 grains just seems too light unless you keep your shots pretty darn close. All of my guns will shoot very well at much higher loads than that. I'd say work on your loads and you should be able to find a better load.

 

[paulab]

JBLK...........The 30-30 was never a black powder round. It was designed as a smokeless ctg. cheers Paul

 

[Dphar]

JBLK...........The 30-30 was never a black powder round. It was designed as a smokeless ctg. cheers Paul

Kinda off topic I guess but its a common misconception.
To add a little more...
The 30-40 was the first smokeless cartridge offered in an American Sporting rifle (Win SS) and it was never a BP cartridge either. The 30 and 40 referred to the nitro cellulose charge weight.
The 30-30 could not even be reloaded with BP with any real success this why the 32 Win. Special was brought out. It duplicated a 30-30 with factory loads but could be reloaded with BP due the slightly larger bore size and the slower twist.
Once the powders became available and the loaders understood that loading smokeless was far different than loading black the need for th 32 special died. Like the 30-30 was a great carbine loading and a great many were made and ammo is still available as a result.
The 303 British WAS a BP cartridge but was switched to Cordite early in its service.

Dan

 

[BrownBear]

Good morning,

I have a T/C Haken 50cal that shoots very, very well with 50g of Goex FFFg and a Hornady PRB. At 75 yards and under, is this adequate for deer?

Thanks

Here's another insight for you:

I've whanged no end of deer out to 50 yards with standard loads from 45 colt revolvers. That's a 255 grain slug at around 725 fps from my guns. One shot kills all. No one ever questions shooting deer with that combo and whether or not it is potent enough.

I can tell you for sure that even with a lighter RB, your 50 grain charge in a 50 cal rifle is turning out lots more geewhiz.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Theoretically 50 grains of power would down a deer adequately. The problem is the unknown variable; the human being pulling the trigger. Shooting at paper targets at known distance on flat, cleared ground without your pulse pounding in your ears and your heart racing is one thing. To calmly judge distance, even short distance, over broke ground, with brush, uphill, downhill, shadows, wind that could shift any second and alert your quarry is a completely different thing all together.

Failure is always an option when human beings are involved. By shooting a heavier load you take one variable out of the equation for possible failure; misjudgment of trajectory. I ask all of you who have lots of hunting experience; have you ever made a misjudgment because you were excited, tired, cold, in a hurry, or just plain lazy? You don’t know how much hunting experience the OP has had, do you really want to sent out a newbie out with a theoretically adequate load?

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I wanted to add that I have shot a deer with a very light loaded T/C back in the seventies. With 20/20 hindsight I now see that as a very lucky outcome to a very, very foolish thing to have tried. I have had, seen, and heard of to many failures hunting that now “take enough gun” has gone from head knowledge to conviction.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Totally agree, you dont have to weigh the charge. However it is nice to know how far off your measure is in case you purchase a new one or forget yours and use someone elses. I just measured mine to find out the truth in what it threw.

Also correct that it really only has to be pretty close for most duty. However I have heard it said by guys who shoot for score at pretty long ranges that even a single grain can make a pretty good difference.

 

[eaglesnester]

Yes. I do believe it will do what U want it to.
The deer in the lower 48 are small and a 50 cal ball with a low charge will do the job for sure if U do your job. All of us wonder about the ability of our riles to take game until we shoot the first one and then we learn more and more about what our flinters and cap locks can do
\
Cheers and tighter groups: the old eaglesester